+Magic Armor Rules -Help?

However after a bit of searching I found these tidbits in the DMG:
Armour:

  • (pg216, 2nd sentence): Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5,....
  • (pg219, last 2 sentences of the 2nd paragraph): A suit of armor cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A suit of armor with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
Weapons:

  • (pg221, 2nd & 3rd sentences): Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat.
  • (pg221, last couple of sentences in the 3rd paragraph): A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.


I can see why the DM's has the +5 caps now.

???

Say i have a +8 sword. ----> +2 enhancement bonus , +6 various abilities

+2 enhancement bounus ≤ 5, +2 enhancement bounus ≥ 1 Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5
+8 total ≤ 10 A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10
enhancement bonus ≥ 1 A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

What is it that you see that i don't???
 
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My understanding of the rules is that you CAN create (for example) a +1 unholy vorpal sword (which would be +1 enhancement bonus, +8 modified enhancement bonus). I cannot find any ruling noting that this cannot be done.
 

My understanding of the rules is that you CAN create (for example) a +1 unholy vorpal sword (which would be +1 enhancement bonus, +8 modified enhancement bonus). I cannot find any ruling noting that this cannot be done.

but what happens if you cast greater magic weapon on it? and the total of enhanced effect changes from a +1 to say a +4 placeing it at a total of +11 enhancement. the raw all say that effects of crafting cannot exceed +1 total, but what about a temporay magic enhancement that increases it past +10?

I think that is the question at hand, though not the op question.
 

but what happens if you cast greater magic weapon on it? and the total of enhanced effect changes from a +1 to say a +4 placeing it at a total of +11 enhancement. the raw all say that effects of crafting cannot exceed +1 total, but what about a temporay magic enhancement that increases it past +10?

I think that is the question at hand, though not the op question.


If it isn't spelled out clearly in the rules, that is what a DM's job is. To arbitrate this type of decision. I would probably allow it in my game (since if you are casting a +4 GMW you are already at Level 16+, and I don't think an extra +1 is a game breaker).
 

but what happens if you cast greater magic weapon on it? and the total of enhanced effect changes from a +1 to say a +4 placeing it at a total of +11 enhancement. the raw all say that effects of crafting cannot exceed +1 total, but what about a temporay magic enhancement that increases it past +10?

I think that is the question at hand, though not the op question.

But you are finished creating it when it was created. GMW isn't creating it. It is enhancing it for a couple hours.
One has nothing to do with the other. Therefore it works.
 

But you are finished creating it when it was created. GMW isn't creating it. It is enhancing it for a couple hours.
One has nothing to do with the other. Therefore it works.

Per the 3.0 DMG:

"A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalent) higher than +10."

So, this has NOTHING to do with crafting. The rules state that it cannot go above +10. Now granted, this is the 3.0 DMG...but I bet if someone checks under Magic Weapons in their 3.5 DMG they will find the same quote.
 

Yes, it's the general sections on Magic Armor and Magic Weapons that say a weapon or suit of armor cannot have more than a +10 total effective enhancement. So the rules are unclear about whether or not Greater Magic Weapon spells would allow overcoming that limit, however temporarily; by the rules as written, however, it seems that you cannot.

Greater Magic Weapon does supercede the weapon's normal enhancement bonus if GMW's bonus is higher, but it appears that you still cannot raise the weapon's total effective enhancement total beyond +10. So GMW cast at 20th-level could bump up a +1 longsword to a +5 longsword temporarily, but it would only boost a Holy +2 Vorpal Longsword up to +3, since such a weapon already has a +9 virtual total beforehand.

Anyway, there's no rule saying that special abilities are capped at +5 total.

There just aren't any NPCs with magic weapons/armor loaded with special abilities because NPCs normally have much lower wealth by level, beyond the first few levels where they're strangely rather wealthy. A +7-equivalent weapon (such as a Holy +1 Keen Longsword of Flaming Burst and Ghost Touch) costs 98,000 GP and change, which only an NPC of 17th-level or higher is even capable of affording at all, per the DMG guidelines on NPC wealth/gear.

Though a 20th-level NPC has considerably more wealth, even they would have to dump almost half of it on such an item. Since only 19th- or 20th-level NPCs can afford such an item AT ALL without giving up almost everything else (a 17th-level NPC would have almost nothing left after "buying" such a weapon), you're not likely to see them lying around.

Heck, it's tough to even find anything more than a simple +4 or +5 magic weapon on any NPC, even the high-level ones, and only a few NPCs in the EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK even have any weapons with more than a +5 total enhancement equivalent; those that do, well, the jerk DM would surely just dismiss as simply possessing epic magic items made with epic item creation feats, since they're similar in power to some artifacts (and, of course, some of those epic NPCs do carry artifacts).

Vlaakith the Lich-Queen has [sblock]a +5 Dancing Vorpal Silver Sword (special githyanki magic greatsword) in Dungeon #100 (one of the Dungeon/Polyhedron combination issues) [/sblock] as noted in her statblock for the Githyanki Incursion campaign. But she's also an epic-level NPC (with an epic item creation feat, but not Craft Epic Magic Arms & Armor, curiously enough; one must wonder where she got that epic magic weapon! Perhaps from an earlier Vlaakith?).

Although magic armor is cheaper, I still can't find anything so far with more than simple +4 or +5 armor right now.
 

Special abilities of arrows and bows both apply, but enhancement bonuses don't stack. So you could have +5 Brilliant Energy arrows (+9 effective) and shoot them with a +1 Holy longbow (+3 effective) to make them +5 Holy, Brilliant Energy arrows (+11 effective). Nothing in any of the rules says you couldn't do this.

Therefore, I can't see why GMW would be problematic either.
 

Spells don't follow crafting limitations as far as I know.

GMW should work just fine. But there are a couple major drawbacks to your strategy. First and foremost is that your weapon is very vulnerable to dispel magic. Any area dispel will hit your weapon as well as you. As this should be a frequent tactic of enemies at your level, its a big thing to consider.

The other thing is that your +1 sword with +9 worth of abilities is only as sturdy as a +1 sword. GMW doesn't change your weapons hardness/hitpoints.

This is why I liked the +x DR mechanic instead of the /magic method. Pathfinder addressed the issue.
 

On the note of the dispel, a 20th level party I have a character in had a disjunction cast at them. Ugh.
 

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