Magic as technology

[Jorren]

I was recently thinking about a variety of fantasy settings and stories in terms of how magic is treated. It seemed to me that most of the time, the most powerful and cataclysmic magic was seen as the product of the distant past, the magic of the here and now somehow considered weaker and diluted. Along with this presumption is a focus on the ‘ancients’, usually referring to ancient beings of great power who commanded great power beyond the reach of any current beings.

I was wondering if anyone had thought of a setting where the magic of the present is more powerful than what has come before. By this I mean that magic, just like anything else, has developed and been refined over the ages, without resorting to the discovery of ‘lost’ lore. Building upon thousands of years of magical knowledge, the mystics and loremasters of today have gone far beyond what was possible in the distant past. A setting like this would have to discard the presumption that magic becomes weaker as the body of standard knowledge increases (non-mystical sciences). I’m not necessarily implying a setting where high-technology co-exists with sorcery (you could still have factors that inhibit technological development), but primarily a focus on expanding magical knowledge over the ages. Instead of wizards marvelling at the power of elder and forgotten races, they could be reading ancient manuscripts and mocking the ignorance of the earliest spellcasters.

Any thoughts?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

You could certainly do a campaign like that, but it removes certain staples from the game:

* No discovering ancient objects of power in a forgotten tomb, since today's magic would be far more awe-inspiring.

* No more ancient evil magic unleashed by uncomprehending modern wizards, since the modern wizards would have no problem understanding and dealing with anything the ancients did.

* No more legendary weapons crafted by ancient wizards, quested after and torn from the blood-stained horde of a red dragon. Modern weapons with no legend attached would be more powerful.

* No more "unearthing" in general.

Consider the real world. Our technology is far superior to anything our ancestors could even dream of. Because of that, there is no inherent danger involved in delving into the past.

For all these reasons, a world which has seen a recent (in the last several hundred years) decline in power, either magical or technological, appeals to me greatly. There are more risks to be taken, when you are dealing with powers greater than any you know. And there are more rewards to be claimed, when a abandoned temple could hold a wonder your world has long forgotten.

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Any thoughts?

You ever play Dawnforge? Sorta sounds like what you're going for. The whole world is new-ish, and there is no "lost age" or anything like that. In effect, you're playing in some future civilization's "lost age".

Reading through it, I wasn't that jazzed about running a Dawnfoge campaign, but that had more to do with the underlying concept than the implementation thereof.

 

[s/LaSH]

I've considered it, and even gone so far as to implement it in my Dungeon Damage world. In there, they're just coming out of the European Dark Ages, so there's a little Roman knowledge lost to history, but at the same time, achieving greater magic is quite possible.

On the other hand, that caps current magic at level 2-3. What you're talking about sounds much more like another paradigm altogether.

B-movie science fiction from the 50s.

This is how you inject Things Man Was Not Meant To Know/Touch/Poke With Magic Sticks into such a high-magic campaign. Someone working in the High Thaum Energy Building whacks two angels together at half the speed of light and creates an antidemon... which goes on a rampage. A researcher in the Church of Light Mercy's medical wing accidentally releases concentrated Mummy Rot into the air, and a whole town is quarantined (something goes on a rampage too). Political dissidents steal a Sphere of Anihiliation and threaten to drop it in the city's water supply (there may be a rampage involved). Things like that.

There's another important corollary. A D&D magic-based society is elitist by definition. Just about anyone can drive a car, shoot a gun, work a PC. Only a wizard/priest can cast phantom steed, activate a fireball wand, or know what spells to cast to make a Crystal Ball work. Everyone's going to want wizard or priest training, too. The unmagical will be weird, creepy people in such a society (unless there's some Gift you need to be a wizard, in which case the Gifted will form a social class above the rest, and priests will be the most egalitarian of people).

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Well, there is Urbis, where quite a few people are able to cast epic-level spells on a regular basis, even if they aren't epic spellcasters themselves!

In general, the setting is loosely based on the Industrial Age, something like Scientific Thinking has developed in the magic-using theory, and more spells and effects are getting discovered as time goes by. The heart of this magical revolution are the Nexus Towers, which take small amounts of life energy from all who live nearby and convert it into magical energies.

 

[Robbert Raets]

This is how you inject Things Man Was Not Meant To Know/Touch/Poke With Magic Sticks into such a high-magic campaign. Someone working in the High Thaum Energy Building whacks two angels together at half the speed of light and creates an antidemon... which goes on a rampage. A researcher in the Church of Light Mercy's medical wing accidentally releases concentrated Mummy Rot into the air, and a whole town is quarantined (something goes on a rampage too). Political dissidents steal a Sphere of Anihiliation and threaten to drop it in the city's water supply (there may be a rampage involved). Things like that.

Heh. Heh heh. Funny

 

[RSKennan]

since Dawnforge has been mentioned, I'd be remiss If I didn't mention Morningstar

It's another golden age setting, but I think of it as very "spicy"... I tried to keep it from being remotely generic.

 

[Tonguez]

The Cressia setting (which developed from an Experimental DnD Military Arms Race on these boards) started iirc with the Stone age and Magic capped at level 2/3 then developed through Bronze Age (cap Lv5), Classic Age (Cap Lv8) and then a Extra-Dimensional invasion (which resulted in a dark age).
I've not 'played' in the setting but it has great potential. The fun for PCs comes in researching new spells based on need rather than having an open menu of them. Non-Magic users get to explore an unexplored world, and fight newly encountered monsters - sort of like now in fact...

So the level system means that your idea is viable and of course the DnD magic system with its fixed effectsand easy access (for wizards anyway) already works like technology

 

[s/LaSH]

Huh, I'd forgotten all about Cressia. That was fun, and very much in the spirit of Progress as required by technology.