Magic item creation question for the DMs

[Crothian]

Then you are a hell-of-a-DM in my book. Remember, I may DM 8 games, but I'm also a player. Sounds like a hair-loss commercial, doesn't it? Funny...I qualify for that commercial.

I DM and PC. So, when I DM I try to do what I would want as a PC. I like options and DMs who work with me. DMs he don't say "No", they say "How about we work it like this...."

On the flip side as a PC I try to do things and come up with things the DM can use. Especially complications. As a PC I try to "Be naked and on Fire" I like my PCs to get in the most trouble and difficulties. THe worse the situation, the more compl,icated it is, the more worthwhile it is when I get out of it. I write up histories that have so many ways to screw me over.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Would you even have to pick the element when you make it? Couldn't the user choose that at the time of usage?

It does have a flaw, though -- at caster level 1, it's trivially easy to dispel it, and once it's dispelled, you can't bring it back 'til the next day. One unlucky area dispel, or any targeted dispel, and it's gone. After a while, I think dispel magic fairly common.

But otherwise, yeah, it's damned handy. Heck, endure elements in general is handy. I've seen PCs take a day of rest, prepare practically nothing but endures (some Extended), then cast 'em just before going to bed that night. 5 pts energy resistance for everyone!

You have to make the selection at the time of creation. That applies to magic item creation in general.

I agree that is gets worthless after a few levels. But for levels 3 through 6 or so it is just a great bonus. After that, not only does it become very fragile, it also becomes less valuable, because you are likely to use better effects that will not stack with it.

 

[Ziggy]

I DM and PC. So, when I DM I try to do what I would want as a PC. I like options and DMs who work with me. DMs he don't say "No", they say "How about we work it like this...."

I also DM and PC, and as a PC I always try to think "what would I have done as a DM if one of my players suggested this item" when I design a new magic item. There are a few legal combination that are pretty unbalanced (the gizmo of cure minor wounds is one of the worst), and I wouldn't like to play in a campaign with suck items; either as PC or DM.

As a DM I try to go with the cool factor. Items that are interesting are good, items that give pluses are more so-and-so. (As none of my players currently have the ability to make magic items its sort of academical at this point, but still....)

We also play with a systems that require specific ingredients and recipes to make magic items. Thus my wizards are always thinking of what he might need whenever we have killed a unique monster, and try to get ingredients he can use later in item creation. It requires a bit of book-keeping, but its much more fun when you finally get hold of that last ingredient required to make those boots of speed.

.Ziggy

 

[dcollins]

This is just my humble opinion, but it seems that the more I see this topic covered, the more DMs I find seem to actually fear allowing new magic items in their games. Whether this is because said DMs are not fully fluent with the magic item creation rules, or they are simply that strict, I don't know.

I feel I must respond to this from the original post. What you're trying to to impugn as "fear" is (a) simply a desire to follow the D&D rules as they stand (DMs must make an exception for each and every new item, according to the DMG), and (b) the desire for a balanced and playtested campaign, beyond the ability of any DM to judge on the fly in the middle of a gaming session.

Even Monte Cook (on his website at http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly3.html) has gone so far as to write the following:

Some days I look at Table 8-40 on page 242 of the DMG and wish it wasn't there at all. At these times, I wish the rule was simply, “Match your new item as closely as you can with an existing item, then give it a similar price.”... The "you"in "How do you figure Market Value?" should ALWAYS be the DM. It should always be the last thing that's done in the process. Do not -- I repeat -- do not allow players to look at that table and see what they can make for X amount of gold.

I follow that protocol. You may need to brush Monte as "fearful" and "not fully fluent with the magic item creation rules", but his statement has always seemed, to me, to be the intent behind the DMG magic item rules.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Magic item creation question for the DMs

I feel I must respond to this from the original post. What you're trying to to impugn as "fear" is (a) simply a desire to follow the D&D rules as they stand (DMs must make an exception for each and every new item, according to the DMG), and (b) the desire for a balanced and playtested campaign, beyond the ability of any DM to judge on the fly in the middle of a gaming session.

I follow that protocol. You may need to brush Monte as "fearful" and "not fully fluent with the magic item creation rules", but his statement has always seemed, to me, to be the intent behind the DMG magic item rules.

I'm sorry. Did you have a point? I am not trying to "impugn" anything, you did that. I had a legitimate question for the DM community. They responded.

 

[Victim]

I would allow non standard items as DM. So far, I don't think it's been an issue in games that I've played in, but I'm pretty sure that one DM would allow it. He seems more worried about people buying magic items than people making them.

However, items should be examined based on what they actually do, not just the spell that it uses. Items such as Shield belts or amulets of cure minor wounds will cost much more than 2000 GP. One item is granting a +7 cover bonus to AC, and so should cost 98000. Curing spells at will are much better than a ring of regeneration since they restore the entire party in much less time.

I can't imagine many fighters wanting a use activated truestrike item - the one in my group often does a full power attack and still almost always hits. A true strike effect on all attacks is absurdly expensive, and probably impossible to make as well.

Finally, anything with unlimited uses with some kind of numeric bonus or effect (damage, healing, etc) is something to be watched. Using the the formulae, there's no difference between costs of unlimited charges and 5 times per day, so a DM could, in theory, let the priest create that belt of cure minor wounds but it only works 5 times per day item, which makes it pretty useless.

 

[IceBear]

This thread puzzles me. Do you think that all DMs are Nazis that just say "NO! I don't allow that"? Where the hell did you get that idea. Of course if a player wants to create a new magical item the DM is going to look at the impact of that item on his campaign, and if he feels it's too powerful as is he's going to suggest changes to it to make it fit within the scope of his campaign and that of the player. You seemed to have gotten angry with people who said "No use activated gloves of true strike for 2000gp" when all they were saying was "I wouldn't allow that item - as I understand how use-actived works - for that cost" That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be gloves of true strike in their games, just that it would be something more like you suggested.

Honestly, a DM can't continuously do things to piss off his players (who are also probably his friends too) or he's not going to be a DM very long. So, obviously the DM will work with the players on magic item creation.

Don't get pissed off at people who say "No", because I'm sure they really mean "No, but if...."

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

This thread puzzles me. Do you think that all DMs are Nazis that just say "NO! I don't allow that"? Where the hell did you get that idea. Of course if a player wants to create a new magical item the DM is going to look at the impact of that item on his campaign, and if he feels it's too powerful as is he's going to suggest changes to it to make it fit within the scope of his campaign and that of the player. You seemed to have gotten angry with people who said "No use activated gloves of true strike for 2000gp" when all they were saying was "I wouldn't allow that item - as I understand how use-actived works - for that cost" That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be gloves of true strike in their games, just that it would be something more like you suggested.

Honestly, a DM can't continuously do things to piss off his players (who are also probably his friends too) or he's not going to be a DM very long. So, obviously the DM will work with the players on magic item creation.

Don't get pissed off at people who say "No", because I'm sure they really mean "No, but if...."

IceBear

IceBear, you're missing the whole point of the thread. I started this thread because I wanted to understand why some many people on these boards are so twitchy when it comes to magic items. A DM telling you "No." is not the same thing as "No. but if...".

If you reread the thread from top to bottom, I think you'll see that what I was getting pissed about was people failing to provide any reasons as to why they would say "No.". I wanted them to tell me why they wouldn't allow a certain magic item. I also was trying to convey that the magic item creation rules in the DMG were perfectly designed to cater to the DM. They were designed to allow the DM to create any item they wish, and also to deny any item they wish. In the case of the Gloves of True Strike, a player can argue that the rules allow it, but a DM can argue that the rules do not limit the Gloves to functioning in one particular manner. Balancing the cost and power of a magic item is easy, as the rules show you how to do this. What does piss me off are lazy DMs that say "No." and don't provide any explanation. I have yet to tell a player that they can't create a particular magic item, though I will tell them how it functions when they are finished.

This thread is pretty much in black and white. If you don't get it, I don't know how to help you, and I wish I could. But, your interpretation of my stance is absolutely dead wrong, which I figure you would know if you completely read the entire thread. If you did read the whole thread, then I don't know what I can do to make this clearer to you.

 

[IceBear]

Sorry, I only read the first three pages of the thread and you seemed to start going postal on a few people. I couldn't take it and posted.

If you want this thread to be "Why wouldn't you allow this magic item, and what can we do to fix it" that's NOT what it seemed like in the first few pages. It came across as you being preachy to any DM that said he wouldn't allow a magic item.

I personally haven't noticed DMs being twitchy about magic items on this board. Twitchy about spells yes, but not really about magic items.

And what DMs have you ever played under that just said "No"? Are there really such animals? I find that very hard to believe.

IceBear

[Edit] And yes, I am in a VERY bad mood today so I apologize in advance for being confrontational, but it really did seem that you were on a high horse for the first few pages and I couldn't understand why you were attacking the other DMs for simply not explaining themselves fully.

 

[kreynolds]

Sorry, I only read the first three pages of the thread and you seemed to start going postal on a few people. I couldn't take it and posted.

It's cool. I knew you didn't read the whole thing the first time.

If you want this thread to be "Why wouldn't you allow this magic item, and what can we do to fix it" that's NOT what it seemed like in the first few pages. It came across as you being preachy to any DM that said he wouldn't allow a magic item.

You're right. I was rough in the beginning, but read more of this to find out why.

I personally haven't noticed DMs being twitchy about magic items on this board. Twitchy about spells yes, but not really about magic items.

Yes, you did. On this very thread. In the beginning of the thread, some were still reluctant to actually expain themselves about the Gloves of True Strike, and it appeared to take a full-on-beating to get them to open up a bit. Soon after, the discussion began making a hell-of-a-lot of headway.

Axiomatic and I went back and forth about the gloves until he finally saw what I was trying to say. In the end, he saw my viewpoint and I confirmed that I saw his.

And what DMs have you ever played under that just said "No"? Are there really such animals? I find that very hard to believe.

I've only played with 2 DMs that were like this, and after presenting them with the very same argument, they were blown out of the water and actually had to start explaining themselves. Once they understood where I was coming from, we didn't have a problem. But make no mistake, there are people just like them on these boards and this thread was an open challenge to any DM regarding magic item creation. I had hope to get more of the "No." DMs, but I got a couple, and that was enough.