Even within the necessary bonus-boosting items, there's a lot of diversity and less chance that you're choosing an item solely for its bonus. If you're going to choose a Level 5 cloak or neck-slot item, it's going to give you +1 to your Fort, Reflex, and Will. Period. All of them do that, so you don't have to worry about that. What you do worry about are the extra cookies, the interesting stuff that makes those magic items unique. Sure, whichever cloak you get is going to give you a +1, but do you want the one that lets you fly or makes you invisible? That's the interesting decision.
Magic Item Dependence
- Thread starter jmucchiello
- Start date
Shroomy
Adventurer
Personally, I think that the developers came up with a good solution to the magic item problem that developed in 3.x. The vast majority of players want to find and use magic items, so the system has to account for them in some fashion or risk completely unbalancing the game. Putting a hard cap on the total number of magic items, making only three of them "must have" (which would be the ones most everyone wants anyways), and making the system somewhat transparent, thus allowing individual DMs the freedom to adjust the system to their liking, seems like the way to go.
Also, I really like the direction they are taking magic items in 4e, with the additional powers. The vast majority of magic items in the 3.5 DMG are strictly dullsville (the MIC improved somewhat improved thing).
Also, I really like the direction they are taking magic items in 4e, with the additional powers. The vast majority of magic items in the 3.5 DMG are strictly dullsville (the MIC improved somewhat improved thing).
Welcome to four months ago.jmucchiello said:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080123 (although the stuff about rings in there is out of date)
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
You want to see how they diminished the Magic item dependance?
Try a old classic : Heroes captured. Obviously all their gears are removed.
In previous editions, you needed to have their equipment conveniently kept near the point where the heroes would eventually escape. Or else you 'd need to have ton of loot available and unguarded. Or else you needed to have very weak enemies nearby. All lame solutions to the fact that a 'naked' 15th level fighter isn't worth a 8th level fighter with level approrpiate equipment.
Now?
You could have your character captured by drows and then they escape and desperately try to evade capture and make it to the surface WITHOUT THEIR EQUIPMENT!
Yep. You'd have to consider them to be a bit weaker than their level sugests when designing encounter but it can be done handily without throwing goblins at 15th level character or force feeding them replacement equipment. They'd grab whatever is handy and they could fight off surprisingly tough challenges in 4e.
A 15th level party escaping the drow city and intially unequipped could even end up battling a Umber Hulk or two on their way up, armed with clubs or whatever they scrounged and have a good fighting chance. Perhaps even a Mind Flayer infiltrator with a handful of troglodytes thrall. Even a small drow party (They'd be welcome, in fact, since they'd carry a lot of stuff adventurers would crave at this point).
That 'escape from the drow city' tale is far superior in 4e than in 3e since you can really make the scarcity of equipment felt for a while without completely crippling the party, baby feeding them powerful equipment or 'conveniently' letting their gears unguarded.
Do this and you'll finally understand what they meant by diminishing magical item dependance.
Try a old classic : Heroes captured. Obviously all their gears are removed.
In previous editions, you needed to have their equipment conveniently kept near the point where the heroes would eventually escape. Or else you 'd need to have ton of loot available and unguarded. Or else you needed to have very weak enemies nearby. All lame solutions to the fact that a 'naked' 15th level fighter isn't worth a 8th level fighter with level approrpiate equipment.
Now?
You could have your character captured by drows and then they escape and desperately try to evade capture and make it to the surface WITHOUT THEIR EQUIPMENT!
Yep. You'd have to consider them to be a bit weaker than their level sugests when designing encounter but it can be done handily without throwing goblins at 15th level character or force feeding them replacement equipment. They'd grab whatever is handy and they could fight off surprisingly tough challenges in 4e.
A 15th level party escaping the drow city and intially unequipped could even end up battling a Umber Hulk or two on their way up, armed with clubs or whatever they scrounged and have a good fighting chance. Perhaps even a Mind Flayer infiltrator with a handful of troglodytes thrall. Even a small drow party (They'd be welcome, in fact, since they'd carry a lot of stuff adventurers would crave at this point).
That 'escape from the drow city' tale is far superior in 4e than in 3e since you can really make the scarcity of equipment felt for a while without completely crippling the party, baby feeding them powerful equipment or 'conveniently' letting their gears unguarded.
Do this and you'll finally understand what they meant by diminishing magical item dependance.
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brehobit said:
This would be very difficult to do. When building a character of say level 11 you get one item of level 12, one of level 11 and one of level 10 plus gold equal to a level 10 item (5000 gold) to spend on rituals, magic items and potions. You will fill the major three but the others you will fill to to three of and that is all. We are converting our existing 3.5 game and are at level 11 and I have 5 magic items. Plus as mentioned you are limited how daily power magic items you can use in a day.
brehobit
Explorer
Say I'm playing a 9th level wizard who took a staff, armor and something else (Haversack?) for his three items. I'd then I'd get:
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (680)
Catstep boots (680) [has a daily, but you'll never use it]
Gloves of piercing. (680) [has a daily]
Amulet of protection (360)
Belt of Vigor (520)
A 9th level wizard would get 3,400 gold. The slots missing are ring (way too much) and helm (nothing worth getting).
These bonus items give you (always on)
* +2 damage with magic missile
* half damage from falling, don't fall prone when falling
* +1 Will, Fort, Ref defense.
* +1 hit point recovered on a healing surge.
Dailies:
Ignore 10 resistance for 1 turn.
The ring and helm slot are hard to fill until you hit 13th level or so.
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (680)
Catstep boots (680) [has a daily, but you'll never use it]
Gloves of piercing. (680) [has a daily]
Amulet of protection (360)
Belt of Vigor (520)
A 9th level wizard would get 3,400 gold. The slots missing are ring (way too much) and helm (nothing worth getting).
These bonus items give you (always on)
* +2 damage with magic missile
* half damage from falling, don't fall prone when falling
* +1 Will, Fort, Ref defense.
* +1 hit point recovered on a healing surge.
Dailies:
Ignore 10 resistance for 1 turn.
The ring and helm slot are hard to fill until you hit 13th level or so.
brehobit said:
Now these items do not exactly scream item dependency. For a 9th level character you are scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to maximize the number of items you get and not how effective they will be for your character. Most of these are really good at low levels but when you get to the upper heroic and into the paragon tier they start to lose their usefulness. At this point you need to start looking at higher level items.
Yes but you will be much less effective than combining some to spend more on other magic items. Your magic missile will get used less the higher level you get. The bracers are very narrow. The boots and gloves will keep their utility but the others will be more insignificant at 9th level. You would be better spending one of your higher level spots on a plus 2 neck item with an effect than the haversack.
Pierson_Lowgal
First Post
I remember there being a column or podcast from a designer saying that there would be advice on substituting other bonuses for low magic item games. If I remember correctly, could someone point me to this?
