Magic Item Limits, Slots, Requirements and Stacking

[Sadrik]

Am I in the minority on this? How about no limit outside the obvious ones? As long as the bonuses don't stack...

I have always been a fan of the concept that items don't care what they look like but rather their effect is what is important.
Example:
Flagon of the dragons (an old 1st edition item) is essentially a cornucopia with a stopper, when you uncorked it, a random breath weapon shot out. I dont think this item can exist in this brave new world of 4e items that must always be defined. It is an implement by nature but is a wondrous too.

Others:
bracers of defense (armor/arm)
ring of protection (ring/neck)

And then, there was all those cool items from some book, where potions were more than just potions (they could be little clay symbols that you break, powders, ointments, oils, and all manner of things). I am not suggesting that they are not moving in this direstion with potions MIC shows otherwise. However, I wish that the concept of "three required core items" was tossed out in favor of "three core types of bonuses" and you can only take the highest item bonus in each from your gear.

Christmas tree effect in my book is the bonus stacking problem of 3e. And since there were so many bonus types you needed a separate item for each bonus. I don't care much about the sheer number of items. Characters won't wear useless trinkets. Rather they will sell them. If I have boots that give me +1 Move and I have a necklace that gives me +2 Move I would use the necklace and sell the boots.

In the "arbitrary slot limit model" players are forced to select less optimal items so they can fill a slot rather than the best one. Condensing the slots does in no way mitigate this problem it exacerbates it.

Certain slots are obvious: 2 implements, feet, hands, arms, body, back, waist, and head after that it is a grey area.

To figure out the grey area you have to look at the specific magic items:
Goggles, mask, glasses these would all interact with the head slot. Now you cannot use a magic helmet and magic glasses. I would be screwed in a D&D world

More head problems the neck: amulets, necklaces, brooches, scarabs, capes and cloaks have been assigned to the neck slot and are given the core duty of giving bonuses to defense of which nothing else can give bonuses too. How about neck and back?

Then, hands run into a problem too: people have 10 fingers and like to wear jewelery but in prior editions you could wear 2 magical rings and have them be active (an arbitrary limit). But now, they are saying, that you cannot even use the magical powers of a ring until a certain level. And then you can use two at another later level.

Like I said, people like to wear jewelery. What about: ear rings, nose rings, toe rings, and the myriad of different necklaces, bracelets and other jewelery there are. I would have rather seen an arbitrary limit based on total jewelery, as a whole. It is better than limiting rings or the neck slot (amulet or cloak?) or head slot (goggles or helmet?).

Why not say, "Characters can only use up to four pieces of magical jewelery period" and treat them as non-slot wondrous items?

Of course, go with the 9 original obvious slots: 2 held implements, feet, hands, arms, body, back, waist, and head.

In the video game version of 4e (which I am sure is a big component of the slot reduction plan) just put 4 slots off on the side to be filled with the jewelery class of wondrous items.

For whatever reason that implementation of a slot system makes sooooooo much more sense to me.

 

[TwoSix]

While I have no idea if you're in the minority, I personally feel the 4e concept is superior, simply due to ease of organization and understanding.

 

[Cadfan]

I've got no idea if you are in the majority or minority objectively, but I disagree with you so I voted to put you in the minority.

I generally like the idea that different slots work with different types of magic. Seems... fitting.

I'd permit an item like the Cornucopia you mentioned. It would be an unslotted item.

I'd also permit jewelry. I'd just count it as being included in the slot it was closest to. A magical earring would be in the head slot.

 

[Sadrik]

I've got no idea if you are in the majority or minority objectively, but I disagree with you so I voted to put you in the minority.

I generally like the idea that different slots work with different types of magic. Seems... fitting.

I'd permit an item like the Cornucopia you mentioned. It would be an unslotted item.

I'd also permit jewelry. I'd just count it as being included in the slot it was closest to. A magical earring would be in the head slot.

So you can wear an earing or a helmet? That just smacks of silliness. So what if you had a magic earing on that allowed you to see 360 degrees (as all head slot items have to deal with these types of things) and then you put on your helmet to your armor as usual and you still see 360. But you come across a helmet while adventuring and you put on the helmet, all of a sudden your 360 vision stops- hmm, the helmet must be magical. Basically that makes the gamey slots work in favor of the player to determine if something is magical. Yuk. This is even more obvious with the neck slot.

 

[Sadrik]

While I have no idea if you're in the minority, I personally feel the 4e concept is superior, simply due to ease of organization and understanding.

2 held implements (weapons, shields, wands, staves)
1 feet (boots, shoes, sandals, slippers)
1 hands (gauntlets, gloves)
1 body (armor, clothes, robes)
1 back (cloak, cape, mantle, shroud, wings)
1 waist (belt, girdle, sash)
1 head (helmet, circlet, hat, crown)

4 Jewlery (includes rings, amulets, scarabs, mummified hands, periapts, necklaces, bracers, braclets, stones, masks, glasses, eyes, goggles and everything similar)
X Consumables (potions, oils, dusts, tokens, scrolls, salve, unguents, candles, ointment, elixir etc)
X Wondrous (tools)

I'm sorry, not more confusing than what was suggested.

 

[Cadfan]

So you can wear an earing or a helmet? That just smacks of silliness. So what if you had a magic earing on that allowed you to see 360 degrees (as all head slot items have to deal with these types of things) and then you put on your helmet to your armor as usual and you still see 360. But you come across a helmet while adventuring and you put on the helmet, all of a sudden your 360 vision stops- hmm, the helmet must be magical. Basically that makes the gamey slots work in favor of the player to determine if something is magical. Yuk. This is even more obvious with the neck slot.

No, you put the helmet on and you suddenly gain a horrible migraine that leaves you on your knees wretching. That will teach you to intentionally meddle in the arcane.

Justify stuff however you want. If players figure out that an item is magical, who cares? Detect Magic is so cheap its practically free. *disclaimer- may not be the case in 4e, no one knows*

 

[Sadrik]

No, you put the helmet on and you suddenly gain a horrible migraine that leaves you on your knees wretching. That will teach you to intentionally meddle in the arcane.

Justify stuff however you want. If players figure out that an item is magical, who cares? Detect Magic is so cheap its practically free. *disclaimer- may not be the case in 4e, no one knows*

Detect Magic should be a very easy thing always- heck make it a skill check. Still though, slots that ram lots of things into them artificially, can cause problems. Things like, normally, people can only wear one hat/helm/crown or armor/outfit boots/shoes etc. These make perfect sense for slots. But when you have slots that represent things that you can normally wear lots of something can cause problems.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

So you can wear an earing or a helmet? That just smacks of silliness. So what if you had a magic earing on that allowed you to see 360 degrees (as all head slot items have to deal with these types of things) and then you put on your helmet to your armor as usual and you still see 360. But you come across a helmet while adventuring and you put on the helmet, all of a sudden your 360 vision stops- hmm, the helmet must be magical. Basically that makes the gamey slots work in favor of the player to determine if something is magical. Yuk. This is even more obvious with the neck slot.

Well, we don't know the rules for what happens if you put on another magic item in the same slot. Personally in this case I would rule that since the earring was already active, it would remain active and the helmet powers would not manifest themselves.

Is there a good non-gamist reason for this? I could make something up about arcane energies and interference patterns or something, but that just isn't worth my time. The easiest answer is: Nobody really understands it fully, that's why it is called "magic" and not "technology."

 

[Mirtek]

Yes, you're clearly in the minority. You critize 4e and this has become a major sin on this board so expect 4e fans from all over the world to make brand new accounts just to vote you into minority

In the future always remember these four little rules:
1. 4e is always right
2. D&D prior to 4e was a terrible game that no one ever played. Books were only bought to look at them and hate them
3. If 4e takes something away that a pre-4e person likes its always easier to add yourself than to ignore
4. If 4e adds something that a pre-4e person dislikes, it's always easier to ignore than to add yourself

 

[Sadrik]

Yes, you're clearly in the minority. You critize 4e and this has become a major sin on this board so expect 4e fans from all over the world to make brand new accounts just to vote you into minority

Hey, I am one of those 4e groupies, I love it so far. My only gripe to date is the item slots/rings thing I think it took it artificially and arbitrarily in the wrong direction. You can bet this will be one of my areas for a house rule immediately on release. Hopefully this is something that they can change before print.