Magic Item Question

[Li Shenron]

A creator always eats the cost of components. There are conditions, though. If you make an item that allows you to do something specific and weird that is extraordinary, and Wish is a prerequisite spell (but NOT actually cast by the item), then the creator eats 5000 XP in addition to normal costs, but the creation and market prices remain unchanged.

Well you wrote it! Your post confused me... seems that if you make an item which casts the spell, the market price is increased because of the Xp cost, while if the spell is only a prerequisite, the market price is unchanged, even if the creator still had to spend the Xp for the spell - in addition to the Xp for the item itself.

I think that every extra Gp cost for casting a spell during creation - if it required - increases the market price, and as well every Xp cost for casting a spell during creation (whether the item can be used to cast it afterwards or not) is converted into extra Gp in the market price. I think that every cost spent by the creator increases the final price!

For the record, I agree with Steffen's examples.

 

[Anubis]

Well you wrote it! Your post confused me... seems that if you make an item which casts the spell, the market price is increased because of the Xp cost, while if the spell is only a prerequisite, the market price is unchanged, even if the creator still had to spend the Xp for the spell - in addition to the Xp for the item itself.

Both of the above statements are absolutely correct. That's what I said. If it's a prereq only, it doesn't increase the markey price, but if it can use the spell, it does.

I think that every extra Gp cost for casting a spell during creation - if it required - increases the market price, and as well every Xp cost for casting a spell during creation (whether the item can be used to cast it afterwards or not) is converted into extra Gp in the market price. I think that every cost spent by the creator increases the final price!

For the record, I agree with Steffen's examples.

The above statement here, however, is incorrect, at least by the book. If you go with that, it's a house rule. There are several examples in the book that show this. The one that comes immediately to mind, of course, is one the book actually points out, that being the goggles of minute seeing. True seeing is a prerequisite, but the cost is still only 1250 gp, which is half what is needed to give a +5 to a skill (because it doesn't work on ALL Search checks, just certain ones). I'm sure you can find others easily enough, but you'd have to search every item to find them. Basically, if it doesn't use the spell, it doesn't go on the market price although you DO pay the costs.

 

[Marshall]

You see, the old books never said that, but a lot of very . . . Well a lot of people interpreted that way, and it was an incorrect interpretation. That wording is still in there, but there are enough examples and clarifications that it's easy to see that it was not, is not, and never will be that way. If it were, creating ANY items with costly components would be impossible by default.

The confusion comes from the "spell is prepared and unable to be cast as if he had already cast it blah blah blah" line. It basical,ly is talking about spell slot availability and says that you can't use that spell slot, as if you had cast the spell that day. The correct interpretation, however, is a simple one. The reasoning behind that text is simply to let you know that you can't use that spell slot for anything else and that the spell has to have been prepared and you can't cast it, as if it had already been cast. Without that text, the creator could still cast that spell as a normal daily spell even after a day of creating. That text is NOT meant to imply in any way that you have to pay the costs per day of creation.

I never have understood why people thought that. It defies all logic and common sense. With that rules, a Ring of Three Wishes couldn't be made until somewhere around like Level 400 due to the XP costs. In addition, the stat-boosting tomes could never be made either.

OK, This is the same as 3.0

Instead, if the spell is ONLY a prerequisite and not in the item, you pay the material and XP costs once.

This is new(and dumb, if its true) Got a quote/pg# ?

 

[Li Shenron]

The above statement here, however, is incorrect, at least by the book. If you go with that, it's a house rule. There are several examples in the book that show this. The one that comes immediately to mind, of course, is one the book actually points out, that being the goggles of minute seeing. True seeing is a prerequisite, but the cost is still only 1250 gp, which is half what is needed to give a +5 to a skill (because it doesn't work on ALL Search checks, just certain ones). I'm sure you can find others easily enough, but you'd have to search every item to find them. Basically, if it doesn't use the spell, it doesn't go on the market price although you DO pay the costs.

What I meant is:

1) I am not sure if crafting a magic item requires that the creator actually casts the "prerequisites" (in the item description) spells; this could be even different between items

However:

2) whatever the creator has to pay when crafting the item, that cost increases the final (market) price of the item

For simple items such as a Scroll, if the spell has Gp cost (material component), such cost is added to the base price to get the market price. That's why a scroll of Identify costs 125 instead of 25. If there is a Xp cost, it is converted into a Gp increase of the market price. This is due to the fact that the user of the item doesn't need to provid material or Xp components when using a scroll: their cost is included in the market price because it had to be provided at creation time.

Now, why on earth there should be a magic item with an extra Gp or Xp cost that must be spent by the creator, but doesn't cause the market price to be higher than the base price?

Let's say an item has Wish as prerequisites.
a) it may require the creator to actually cast Wish and therefore spend 5000Xp (this is always the case if the item lets the user cast Wish without costing him Xp) -> the market price is base price + 25000gp
b) it does not require the creator to cast Wish / spend Xp -> merket price = base price

Your posts seem to say that there is a third possibility, when the creator must spend 5000Xp but doesn't get +25000gp on the market price, but there is no such possibility.

 

[Kirowan]

The scroll actual casts the spell. Goggles of minute seeing don't actually cast true seeing. That's the difference.

Nick