D&D 5E Magic Item Slots in D&D Next

[Dausuul]

The original "bag of rats" exploit went as follows:

1. Play a fighter (you don't have to do this, but it makes it a lot easier to get the necessary feats).
2. Obtain the following:

• Great Cleave feat.
• Whirlwind Attack feat.
• Big sword.
• One (1) bag of rats. Twenty rats will do.

3. When you meet an enemy, henceforth designated "Roadkill," dump the rats on the ground and declare them your enemies.
4. Use Whirlwind Attack.
5. Whirlwind Attack lets you make one melee attack against every opponent within 5 feet. Target Roadkill and each rat.
6. For each opponent you reduce to zero hit points in melee, Great Cleave gives you a free melee attack against one opponent within 5 feet.
7. Assuming you hit 19 out of 20 rats with Whirlwind, you get 19 bonus attacks from Great Cleave. Direct them all at Roadkill.
8. Roadkill takes twenty attacks from you (1 from Whirlwind and 19 from Great Cleave), all at full attack bonus and full damage, and does its best impersonation of a gopher in a Cuisinart.

 

[Kynn]

I have 10 fingers. Why has D&D always limited me to only 2 rings, anyway?

 

[steeldragons]

The original "bag of rats" exploit went as follows:

1. Play a fighter (you don't have to do this, but it makes it a lot easier to get the necessary feats).
2. Obtain the following:

• Great Cleave feat.
• Whirlwind Attack feat.
• Big sword.
• One (1) bag of rats. Twenty rats will do.

3. When you meet an enemy, henceforth designated "Roadkill," dump the rats on the ground and declare them your enemies.
4. Use Whirlwind Attack.
5. Whirlwind Attack lets you make one melee attack against every opponent within 5 feet. Target Roadkill and each rat.
6. For each opponent you reduce to zero hit points in melee, Great Cleave gives you a free melee attack against one opponent within 5 feet.
7. Assuming you hit 19 out of 20 rats with Whirlwind, you get 19 bonus attacks from Great Cleave. Direct them all at Roadkill.
8. Roadkill takes twenty attacks from you (1 from Whirlwind and 19 from Great Cleave), all at full attack bonus and full damage, and does its best impersonation of a gopher in a Cuisinart.

OMG! Really?!?! Seriously?!?! THIS is how 4e works?! No wonder I hardly played it.

Cuisinart not withstanding... (but cute descriptive)

You [the "royal" you,meaning whoever you are/want to be] are welcome to keep your "sack of rats."

ugh. yuck.
--SD

 

[TwinBahamut]

OMG! Really?!?! Seriously?!?! THIS is how 4e works?! No wonder I hardly played it.

No, this is how 3E works. 4E addresses this kind of exploit (which were rampant in 3E) and for the most part removes them completely.

There was a lot of rule stupidity in 3E. A lot. Look up Pun Pun or the Omniscificer if you so desire. Creating a being with infinite stats became a 3E subgame.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, 4e is actually the most balanced edition of D&D. Its boon and its bane, depending on the target.

Good for organized play for example (which 3e's imbalances were _severely_ problematic for) and bad for casual gamers, especially ones who are offended by optional errata... well, and folks who just don't want balance. Which is a fair number of people. Especially who like casters

Wherever on the scale D&DN lands, I sure hope the days of "Bead of Karma, walk up to here, Holy Word. All enemies auto die" are gone

 

[steeldragons]

No, this is how 3E works. 4E addresses this kind of exploit (which were rampant in 3E) and for the most part removes them completely.

There was a lot of rule stupidity in 3E. A lot. Look up Pun Pun or the Omniscificer if you so desire. Creating a being with infinite stats became a 3E subgame.

YIKES! Well, I never played or knew 3e...thank the gods, huh? haha. 4e I played [by post], once.

I still fail to see what this has to do with magic items...and their slots...or lack thereof.

--SD

 

[Dausuul]

YIKES! Well, I never played or knew 3e...thank the gods, huh? haha. 4e I played [by post], once.

I still fail to see what this has to do with magic items...and their slots...or lack thereof.

--SD

People were citing "bag-of-rats" as an example for why we need specific, clear rules for item slots rather than relying on "common sense."

Of course, much like Pun-Pun and the Omniscificer, bag-of-rats is a theoretical exercise in rules abuse. I have never seen nor heard of a gaming table whereat anyone tried to use bag-of-rats, and my mind boggles slightly at the idea that any DM ever would allow it to fly. 3E seemed to get along just fine without any specific rule against it, on account of DMs having... wait for it... common sense. 4E's "no bags of rats" rule struck me as more of an in-joke from the designers than an attempt to address a real problem.

(Also, before you get all superior about never having played 3E and hardly played 4E... shall we dig into the broken rules in your edition of choice? )

 

[Argyle King]

I want a system in which the hand wielding the sword is (usually) more important than the enchantment on the sword. As such, I'd like a system which assumes nothing about the items I have.

 

[herrozerro]

No, this is how 3E works. 4E addresses this kind of exploit (which were rampant in 3E) and for the most part removes them completely.

There was a lot of rule stupidity in 3E. A lot. Look up Pun Pun or the Omniscificer if you so desire. Creating a being with infinite stats became a 3E subgame.

dont forget the locate city bomb:

Take Locate City. AOE, no save, radius 10 miles per CL. (Really, any low level large area spell works.)

Add Snowcasting (frostburn). Adds a snow material component, and gives the spell the Cold descriptor.

Add Flash Frost Spell (PHB2) . modifies any Cold spell with an area to slick that area in ice, for a short duration Grease effect and 2 cold damage, no save.

Add Energy Substitute (CA). Modify any spell with an energy descriptor to use another energy type from the list. Here that list is Electric. It deals 2 electric damage in its area but lacks a save. [EDIT: If you think this prevents the system from working because it's no longer [cold] for flashfrost (despite order of operations on metamagic producing different results), you can also use Energy Admixture and get around the problem.]

Add Born of Three Thunders (CA). Modifies any damaging electric or sonic spell to be both electric and sonic. It also gives the spell a Fortitude save for deafening and a Reflex save for prone, similar to the Great Thunderclap spell. Our spell is now an AoE [Electric/Sonic] (or [Electric, Sonic, Cold]) effect with, among other things, a Reflex save.

Use Explosive Spell (CA). Modifies any AoE spell which has a reflex save, which you'll note we now have. Subjects in the area are pushed to the nearest unaffected square. They take 1d6 damage per 10 feet moves this way, due to the FEAT (ie not reducable by evasion). The spell has a radius of MILES. That's a lot of 10' increments before the creatures stop.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Much like some of steeldragons' and mkills' suggestions, I'd like an option for the old potion miscibility results to be cleaned up, organized, and expanded to all of magic, spells and items. Then let the players wear as many items as they dare. You might need certain keywords (and level) on every piece of magic to make this work, but those can be used for other purposes as well.

I figure that such a module designed to put the limits of items into the players' hands might as well handle too much high level casting, too. And don't make it too rough. The whole point it to put this giant temptation in front of the players, and for that to happen they have to sometimes go for it.

To be nice, perhaps the first two or three items don't have any such effects.

When I first started running games, it was relayed to me that one of the local groups had a killer DM who liked to make AD&D 1E potions practically impossible to identify in any safe or timely manner. His players retaliated by saving the potions until everything looked hopeless, then pulling them out and randomly mixing them in hope that in the resulting "miscibility" effects, one or two of them might escape. I think they got the idea from the various "retributive strikes" on the powerful staves. I'd like to see a group in desperate straits consider "Mixing Things Which Man Was Not Meant to Mix". This also explains all those strange creatures in D&D worlds.