Magic Item Wishlist: Yea or Nay?

[Aus_Snow]

Other people's opinions?

Ugh. Hell, no.

Exactly the sort of RPG experience I don't want any part of.

 

[Abraxas]

In the dark ages of my gaming history I didn't use wish lists or make them - however in my 3E & 4E days, I like and use them both as a DM and a player.

This change is primarily due to three things
As DM - giving out items that I think are cool only to have players forget they have them, want to trade for something else, or plain don't think they are as cool as I do cause I misread their preference.

As Player - receiving items that just don't float my boat or being cool but so situational that they just take up space and I forget I have them.

and also as a Player - recently I have been creating characters with a much more narrow focus which means a lot of stuff doesn't really fit the characters.

 

[S'mon]

I guess this gets back to my other post about meta gaming.

How do the characters, not the players, but the characters, know what they want?

Are they all well versed in the arcanum of the world?

Honest question for those who say if they want specific items that the characters know about they must question for them.

And... I'm not trying to be snarky here, why couldn't a player give a GM a wish list and during a bar stay find out, in game, where the item in question is?

That's almost a potato/tomato thing no? Where's the real difference between the player going, "Here's a wish list of items I'm interesting in and will be looking for in downtime including going to bars, etc..." and the character just going to bars etc... and doing it? It would seem that the former gives the GM more set up time.

Wish-lists are a pure metagame concept. The whole point per 4e DMG is that the player gives the GM the list, the GM "drops" the items in his allocated treasure parcels, the PC does nothing beyond normal adventuring.

By contrast "My Invoker PC is Searching for a Staff of Ruin" is not metagaming, it's character-background. Determining character background & goals and then acting on them is not metagaming, it's gaming.

Obviously I can veto elements of character background if they don't fit my setting, if for some reason that PC could never have heard of Staffs of Ruin in her 20+ years on the planet. Not likely in a normal 4e setup though.

 

[S'mon]

And... I'm not trying to be snarky here, why couldn't a player give a GM a wish list and during a bar stay find out, in game, where the item in question is?

If the PC wants anything more specific than a +1 longsword or dagger, a bar stay is unlikely to generate anything more specific than "There's a wizard in the next village, he makes stuff" - which is often all it takes, in 4e.

For the Invoker of the Raven Queen PC IMC who wanted a Staff of Ruin, the local Wizard couldn't make it for her - he did PHB-only - so AIR she got hold of a scroll of Enchant Item, a length of lightning-blasted oak, a ruby, and she made it herself.

 

[S'mon]

Here's the kind of thing I do in my 1e AD&D/OSRIC City State of the Invincible Overlord game:

A Fighter PC is specialised in Bardiche. He's unlikely to ever randomly find a magic Bardiche. But he *did* find a +3 rune-scribed Spear (Wraith Overlord - Despot Ruins level 1), which he took to the Temple of Odin. They were happy to get their lost artifact back and the High Priest laid a battle rune on his Bardiche, enchanting it to +1.

 

[S'mon]

I wasn't claiming that was what wish lists were; I was simply pointing out that there's more to questing for an item than making a skill check or two. The difference between a wish list and questing for an item is that, in the latter case, you have to actually go quest for the item. (Or sub-quest, or side-plot, or something.) You set out with a purpose, face challenges and beat them, and accomplish your purpose. With a wish list, you happen across the item in the course of your regular adventuring. You don't do anything with the goal of finding the item; it just kind of pops up when the DM feels like giving it to you.

To me, at least, there's no fun in that. It's just, "Ah, there's that item I put on my wish list. Whaddaya know?" It's the worst of both worlds. I knew stuff from that list was going to show up eventually, so I don't get the lottery-win thrill of "Holy CRAP! Look what this guy had!" But I have no control over when it shows up, so I also don't get the sense of accomplishment that comes from "At last, my quest is complete!"

"Must spread some XP around..." *tch* There needs to be an exception for Dausuul!

 

[S'mon]

This change is primarily due to three things
As DM - giving out items that I think are cool only to have players forget they have them, want to trade for something else, or plain don't think they are as cool as I do cause I misread their preference.

As DM I don't see that as my problem. I create an environment with opportunities for the PCs to be cool, but it's primarily simulationist - NPCs have treasure they'd logically have, not what suits the PCs.

An Orb wizard in my 4e campaign did get lucky last session - the figure I was using for the Troglodyte shaman carried a big red crystal orb, so I noted it as a +2 Orb. I didn't drop it to suit the player though, I didn't even make the association until later, and if the Wizard PC had been more proactive I expect he could have had one made for him earlier (only issue there is that I'm not sure the party treasurer is actually handing out any treasure to the other PCs - again, not my problem!). And in fact the Wizard just hit 6th level, so he could even make one himself.

 

[nnms]

I don't like wish lists.

My main reason is that I don't like pre-building and pre-leveling of PCs.

Some players may enjoy leveling up their character from every level from 1 to 30 and plan out what powers, feats, and items they'll have at every level.

I much prefer characters to develop and advance in the context of the campaign. Not in isolation beforehand.

 

[BryonD]

Does the resistance come from fear of making magic items special? I've seen some posters not that they will not use wish list and only have monsters/enemies use items that are useful and pondering how exactly that works if items on the wish list would be... yeah, useful.

No, the resistance comes from the point of playing a story based game in the first place.

 

[Panzeh]

I don't think DnD is really a very good system for story-based games, but regardless, I like the magic item wishlist. I think as a DM, if you're going to reward players, there's nothing worse than handing out items the player doesn't want. Part of the trust between player and DM is that the player is going to get a satisfying reward for braving danger.

Granted, putting your desired items on a list doesn't necessarily guarantee that you'll get it, but it gives me as a DM a pool of 'accepted loot' that can be given out as rewards with a good reaction. It also means, given the tendency of DnD characters to tend toward sociopathy, that there are items I can use as pure 'quest' items without much risk of the players outright stealing it.