Magic items are finally rare !

[Kintara]

There are plenty of things to spend money on. Spending is kind of what money is built for. You can buy anything from land and keeps and titles and merchant fleets, to sex and drugs and...Bardic Music? The point is that money is easy to spend.

 

[Scarbonac]

I'm not sure that this change implies that magic items will be rare. It does say that PCs won't need as many magic items in order to fight opponents of an appropriate level, but that doesn't mean that magic items will actually be much less common.

Same here; I like the items to be there, but dislike it when they're essential to the character rather than a nice bonus or cool extra ability.

 

[brehobit]

I actually think this announcement was backing away from the original way of keeping the number of items down.

I strongly suspect they were looking at providing penalties for using magic items. So like the weapons of legacy you'd have to give up something maintaining a fairly neutral power-level.

This obviously has lots of problems. Loot isn't so great if it's just a break-even proposition, and getting the balance right would be hard. But otherwise the "need" items issue continues.


Here's where I think they are going:
#1 More strictly limited number of slots than 3e. (say 5?) and very few unslotted items.
#2 Fewer items that provide raw bonuses. Instead swift/immediate usage will be common. This in effect limits stacking of items while providing options.

Here's what I think they should add:

#3a Some minor, and reasonable penalty for using a certain class of item. So for example, using a magic sword might involve it "taking over" some of your reactions and you lose a bit of judgement. So you get the ability to use action points to reroll attack checks only if you aren't attacking with a magic weapon. Using a magic helmet might reduce an armor bonus by 1 (min 4) as it doesn't provide the protection of a real helmet in heavy armor. Certain items (rings, amulets, etc.) might make you an easier target for certain spells (say -1 to will saves) or perhaps have a chance of exploding if you get criticalled by a fire attack. etc. etc. Generally more powerful items have somewhat worse problems (explode for more damage, -2 to will saves, helm might break if AC difference mattered, etc.)

My #3a is similar to the weapons of legacy rules, but aren't as nasty. And as long as the slots are kept down AND most items of a given slot tend to have the same disadvantage, it won't be that hard to keep track of. And certain characters will tend not to use certain kinds of items.

#3b (another option) Using most magic items requires attunement. So you spend EXP and time to be able to use an item at all. Further, the item soaks a % of your EXP earned. Some items just burn the EXP, others get more powerful. So a +1 sword might require 50EXP and an hour to attune to, while a +5 sword might require 1000 EXP, 2 days, and it might take 5% of all EXP. This makes minor magic items fairly worthless (which they mostly are now), one-shot items (which generally won't require this) much more popular, and again keeps the number of items down. But the mechanics suck...

Ah well..

 

[Wepwawet]

But,

Characters adventure for fame and fortune... and loot... ok it depends on the adventure, but most do… so now that magic items are rare… what are you adventuring for? Just coin? What can you do with coin, seeing that you end up moving from Inn to Inn (well unless you have a localized campaign?)

Adenturing for power! That is, XP
I have more fun leveling up than finding new magic items (especially you get them in almost every encounter)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I actually think this announcement was backing away from the original way of keeping the number of items down.

I strongly suspect they were looking at providing penalties for using magic items. So like the weapons of legacy you'd have to give up something maintaining a fairly neutral power-level.

This obviously has lots of problems. Loot isn't so great if it's just a break-even proposition, and getting the balance right would be hard. But otherwise the "need" items issue continues.


Here's where I think they are going:
#1 More strictly limited number of slots than 3e. (say 5?) and very few unslotted items.
#2 Fewer items that provide raw bonuses. Instead swift/immediate usage will be common. This in effect limits stacking of items while providing options.

Here's what I think they should add:

#3a Some minor, and reasonable penalty for using a certain class of item. So for example, using a magic sword might involve it "taking over" some of your reactions and you lose a bit of judgement. So you get the ability to use action points to reroll attack checks only if you aren't attacking with a magic weapon. Using a magic helmet might reduce an armor bonus by 1 (min 4) as it doesn't provide the protection of a real helmet in heavy armor. Certain items (rings, amulets, etc.) might make you an easier target for certain spells (say -1 to will saves) or perhaps have a chance of exploding if you get criticalled by a fire attack. etc. etc. Generally more powerful items have somewhat worse problems (explode for more damage, -2 to will saves, helm might break if AC difference mattered, etc.)

My #3a is similar to the weapons of legacy rules, but aren't as nasty. And as long as the slots are kept down AND most items of a given slot tend to have the same disadvantage, it won't be that hard to keep track of. And certain characters will tend not to use certain kinds of items.

#3b (another option) Using most magic items requires attunement. So you spend EXP and time to be able to use an item at all. Further, the item soaks a % of your EXP earned. Some items just burn the EXP, others get more powerful. So a +1 sword might require 50EXP and an hour to attune to, while a +5 sword might require 1000 EXP, 2 days, and it might take 5% of all EXP. This makes minor magic items fairly worthless (which they mostly are now), one-shot items (which generally won't require this) much more popular, and again keeps the number of items down. But the mechanics suck...

Ah well..

I think your predictions are mostly off. Paying XP for attuning magic items for example is pretty similar to paying xp for creating a magic item. If they don't want the latter, they won't do the former.

Magic Items granting bonuses and penalties to compensate doesn't sound like something they would use as a standard. Espeically with the "per encounter" balance focus, they will probably want to avoid the possibility to use an item effectively in one encounter and balancing this with long-term penalties.

I think balance will be more focused on "opportunity" cost. You can use power X, but you need to spend one of your precious actions (and everything other than a free action is precious), which you could have used for ability Y.

Magic items slots worked on the same premise (yes, you can wear a Cloak of Charisma, but that means no Cloak of Resistance), but it fall flat because to many standard items were required for an effective character. This meant any interesting item useful only in less common situations would be sold at the first opportunity.
(in other words The "Big Six" were a requirement for every character, and this meant that magic items that really added something interesting to the game would be ignored, because there was no way you could wear/use them without giving something critically important.

The "Big Six" might be gone entirely, or considerably changed.
Gauntlets of Ogre Power might still grant a +2 bonus to Strength, but it would only boost your up Strength to 18. A decent fighter will no longer need the item, but it might be useful for a Rogue or Cleric. This means the Fighter could wear "Gauntlets of Rust" or "Gloves of Arrow Snaring" instead.
I don't know how you this mechanic could be translated for the other items (bonus to natural armor, deflection, armor, shield, saving throw), but I guess you might come up with things.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

The "Big Six" might be gone entirely, or considerably changed.

That is what I think is going to happen. Magic items will offer interesting effects that won't be useful all the time.

Even if 4e class/race powers and abilities allow the PCs to do more without magic items, if a magic item still provides a constant boost to attacks or defenses, the PCs will be sure to have them to get that added boost. If they come with some form of penalty to partially offset the bonus, you will probably find people mixing magic items to negate the penalties they don't want and soon it will be Christmas Tree time all over again.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

As long as they don't kill the drive of players to find magic items and recover treasure...well I'm all for what is seems like WotC is going to do.

Keep it fun.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Here's what I'd like to see:

3E:

Magic Items are a part of your character's structure. You need them to be a certain level.

When your character dies your DM thinks, "By Thor's Hammer, I have to get that stuff away from the party!"

The party says, "Dibs!"

4E:

Magic Items are a part of your Party's structure. You all might use them to get through a certain encounter.

When your character dies your Party thinks, "'Sblood, we have to get that stuff away from the Monsters!"

The DM says: "Mwahahahahahaha!"

That way items become more an aspect of the adventure than an aspect of the character.

 

[neceros]

As is mentioned a few times here-

• Items should not be necessary, but something special. That is to say anything of real adventure value should be worth adventuring for. If someone makes a magical spoon that automatically feeds you that doesn't much break the game, but is still pretty darn cool.
• Magic should be a valid reward, as with any D&D game. Even if it's something minor (Say, That flute that casts Charm Monster 1/day), it should still be something to strive for.
• Major magic items should be crafted by the players or found at the end of a major quest or adventure.
• Magic Items that provide constant Stat boosts (even AC) should be limited to a few or no slots per character (I'm looking at you, Belt of Magnificence) so a stat increase is either unheard of or extremely special or limited.

Anyhow, that's how I feel. I believe my power should come from my character, not my items. Items should be tools and opertunities, not necessities.

 

[Lanefan]

As is mentioned a few times here-

[*]Items should not be necessary, but something special. That is to say anything of real adventure value should be worth adventuring for. If someone makes a magical spoon that automatically feeds you that doesn't much break the game, but is still pretty darn cool.

[*]Magic should be a valid reward, as with any D&D game. Even if it's something minor (Say, That flute that casts Charm Monster 1/day), it should still be something to strive for.

Agreed. Also, items like the ever-feeding spoon or the charming flute are unusual, and thus more interesting than a stat boost or a +2 suit of armour.

Major magic items should be crafted by the players....

Disagree. PCs shouldn't be in the business of *making* items. They get their stuff by going out and finding/recovering/stealing items that other people made.

Magic Items that provide constant Stat boosts (even AC) should be limited to a few or no slots per character (I'm looking at you, Belt of Magnificence) so a stat increase is either unheard of or extremely special or limited.

The 6 core stats should be almost unchangeable except by the rarest (and colstliest) of means. To hit, damage, and AC are more malleable...though it sounds like AC as we know it may be going the way of the dodo anyway, and we ought to be talking about defense adjustment items.

Lanefan