D&D 5E magic items prices

[Nergal Pendragon]

5th edition has a very loose simple tier system based, so again what edition is the outlier here? What system took the least amount of thought or effort to put together?

The edition that didn't include any item selling rules in the core three books at all. You really can't make any less effort than no effort at all.

That is not to say that 5E's system is necessarily better. I'm currently trying to figure out how it would work with Eberron. And the more I look at it, the more I come to a conclusion that either the Eberron book is going to be huge, they're going to either gut or completely skip the setting book, or the result is going to be an attempt at adapting it that won't capture the magic that the original releases did and will leave a lot of people disappointed.

Overall, just looking at that setting alone is making me swing my position from 5E's magic item selling system being something that can work to it being something that is going to be an epic headache.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I'm currently trying to figure out how it would work with Eberron. And the more I look at it, the more I come to a conclusion that either the Eberron book is going to be huge, they're going to either gut or completely skip the setting book, or the result is going to be an attempt at adapting it that won't capture the magic that the original releases did and will leave a lot of people disappointed.

I don't think we'll get an Eberron book, which kinda solves the problem.

 

[Eejit]

I find it really amusing when people try to support the D&D supposition that magic items are special and rare, and should not be bought or sold. Anything valuable will be bought and sold by humans. It's what we do. It's laughable to think otherwise.

Please note, readers: this is a strawman.

It's suggested that magic items are special and rare, and bought and sold like very high-end art in our world. Private trades, irregular auctions and so on. Nobody in this thread or WoTC is saying they should not be bought or sold, just that they shouldn't be reliably bought or sold from a normal shop.

 

[Ahrimon]

The edition that didn't include any item selling rules in the core three books at all. You really can't make any less effort than no effort at all.

That is not to say that 5E's system is necessarily better. I'm currently trying to figure out how it would work with Eberron. And the more I look at it, the more I come to a conclusion that either the Eberron book is going to be huge, they're going to either gut or completely skip the setting book, or the result is going to be an attempt at adapting it that won't capture the magic that the original releases did and will leave a lot of people disappointed.

Overall, just looking at that setting alone is making me swing my position from 5E's magic item selling system being something that can work to it being something that is going to be an epic headache.

Caveat: personal viewpoint.
You have to not think about eberron from an adventurer's viewpoint and more from a setting viewpoint. Yes eberron is a very broad magic setting. I use broad rather than high purposefully here. There is magic everywhere but it is utilitarian magic. Lightning rails and airships are huge endeavors that aren't reproduced all the time. Most of a PC's magic items are highly specialized, not the sort of stuff that you find floating around everywhere. Why create a couple of magic swords that can only be wielded by a few people and give make them only slightly more capable when you can create a magic cart to carry your troops into battle faster. Or a self propelled battering ram. Or even an everflowing fountain in the town square so that the city would never run out of water (very handy in a siege). The utalitarian flying stuff only works in air zones like Sharn. A flying carpet works everywhere so it's a rare, special item.

Perhaps it could help to think of it from a modern perspective. Our magic is everywhere. Self-cleaning ovens, vacuum cleaners, mixers, cars, motorcycles, streetlights, telephones, tv's, etc. PC's are the ones running around with advanced tech from a spy movie. Stuff that isn't just pumped out of any old factory. It's all custom made and extremely expensive.

That's how I look at it anyway; I know it won't fit everyone's vision but it works for me.

 

[Ahrimon]

You claim both crowds are satisfied, they are not. You mention "you can easily run with magic item shops" & "other than having to put a little effort into a game", but wouldn't have been easier and less effort for WoTC to do this? If it is so easy why was 3e's system not done well, why was 4e magic items lackluster? The truth is it isn't easy and it takes a lot of effort to balance out prices for every magic item and expected wealth and character capability, and thats why WoTC took the easy way out and just didn't do more than a very vague almost useless system.

Well obviously there's no satisfying some people...

It wouldn't have easier for wotc. If they had put hard coded prices on the items then DMs around the world would have been pressured to stick to those exact numbers. Any DM wanting to craft his own world would end up with players pointing at the book and saying item X costs Y amount regardless of the story the DM was trying to craft. Balancing a fantasy economy isn't any different that any other aspect of DM'ng. You experiment with the numbers, make some mistakes, and learn what works for you. They've built a system where everyone can have what they want, even if it does take a little bit of work. It's infinitely better IMO than a system where everything is spelled out and anyone deviates the slightest bit is burned at the forum stake for heresy.

I really doubt there are DM's out there thinking about that amazing campaign they were going to run if only there had been prices on magic items. CURSE YOU WOTC!!!! ***Shakes fist in the air***

And for the players that are upset they can't browse the DMG catalog of wondrous epic magiks. Well, it's a new game and a new erra. Ask your DM to make one, make your own and see if your DM will use it, adapt or find another game. I really don't think we'll loose too many players over it.

 

[KarinsDad]

Please note, readers: this is a strawman.

It's suggested that magic items are special and rare, and bought and sold like very high-end art in our world. Private trades, irregular auctions and so on. Nobody in this thread or WoTC is saying they should not be bought or sold, just that they shouldn't be reliably bought or sold from a normal shop.

Please note, readers: this is a strawman.

Until this post, not one poster wrote the words "normal shop" in this thread. Anywhere. People have discussed magic item shops, but where in the definition of magic items shops does it restrict them to being normal shops? Is high-end art sold in a normal shop?


Seriously? This is your rebuttal?

It's a strawman because you cannot think of anything better to counter with???

 

[Eejit]

Remove the word "normal" if it makes you happier. My point stands. Auction houses aren't shops, and that's where real high-end art equivalent to rare magical items changes hands rather than shop-like Galleries.

You seem kinda desperate.

 

[KarinsDad]

Remove the word "normal" if it makes you happier. My point stands. Auction houses aren't shops.

You seem kinda desperate.

Why are you so snarky?

People in the real world buy used Ferrari's and Maserati at high end car dealerships. It's a "normal shop" in the sense that people (who can afford to) just come in and buy.

How is this implausible in a fantasy world? Who says that it has to be an auction shop?

And who says that it's implausible for common and uncommon lesser value items? Nothing says that everything has to be about the high end stuff.

At $100 per gold piece, a 50 GP potion of healing = $5000.

A 500 GP uncommon item like a +1 sword = $50,000.

In the real world, there are "car shops" and "boat shops" and all kinds of shops (art, clothing, etc.) where items can be purchased in the $10,000 to $50,000 range. Even at $500,000 for more expensive items, there are Realtor shops for those people wanting to buy a house. The same could happen in a fantasy world without an "auction".

It makes total sense that low end stuff ($500 GP and less) could be bought/sold in a (using your words) "normal shop" and that the high end stuff could be bought/sold using other venues.


Course in a D&D world with magic, even the high end stuff could be in a normal shop. After the 5th customer who tries to steal something gets turned to stone, word gets around. In the real world, there are guards with automatic weapons protecting high end art, you just don't always see them. The same would be true of a fantasy world, but in this case, wealthy NPC merchants who trade in magic also have magic (and magic users). Ditto for temples with priests, druid groves with druids. As a PC, you want to mess with the guy selling the item, you might be getting the bull by the horns.

Just because you might not like the concept of buying and selling magic items does not mean that every DM and player thinks that way.


You point doesn't stand. It falls over and plays dead.

 

[ExploderWizard]

You claim both crowds are satisfied, they are not. You mention "you can easily run with magic item shops" & "other than having to put a little effort into a game", but wouldn't have been easier and less effort for WoTC to do this? If it is so easy why was 3e's system not done well, why was 4e magic items lackluster? The truth is it isn't easy and it takes a lot of effort to balance out prices for every magic item and expected wealth and character capability, and thats why WoTC took the easy way out and just didn't do more than a very vague almost useless system.

Not really. WOTC did the one thing that some players cannot fathom. They left some important decisions about how the game world works to those who will be running and playing in it. What they did, very wisely, was to lower the boot on lame player appeals to authority/rulebooks in these matters. They have removed the wind from the sails of the " but its in the rulebook!!" crowd of players. BRAVO WOTC! ROCK ON! The game still allows you to be as generous with the availability of magic items as you want but there is no longer a set formula for how much magic each character "should" have. Being responsible for the content in your own campaign is something to be sought after, not lamented.

 

[Werebat]

I don't think we'll get an Eberron book, which kinda solves the problem.

I think we will. The fix could be as simple as bumping the rarity of all magic items down one category, with currently "common" magic items being available in shops like most other commodities.