D&D (2024) Magic Missile is saved! Hooray!

[FrogReaver]

Separate die for each missile. There is no saving throw made, so the new damage vs multiple targets rule doesn't apply. Magic missile effectively works the same as Scorching Ray, but without an attack roll.

One roll of the die per spell - so one missile will do bonus damage. The same as scorching ray would work.

One roll of the die per spell - same as above, no matter how you distribute the missiles.

Sorry, where’s the rules backing all this up? The only one I see cited is the multi targeting rule.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Sorry, where’s the rules backing all this up? The only one I see cited is the multi targeting rule.

Read the spell text of Magic missile and the ability text for Evoker. I'm not going to type out the text.

 

[Reynard]

What was useful about potentially missing with a magic missile?

It isn't that missing is useful,it's that making it a on par attack is better than keeping it a spell that is worthwhile for exactly 2 levels of play.

 

[Maxperson]

no amount of d4 rolling will make feeling of rolling a d4 good or better(than something).
if anything, more d4s I roll, the worse I feel.

Weeeeellll, d4s are better at open ended/exploding die rolls, where if you roll max you get to roll again and add the new number to the old one, repeating as long as you roll the maximum.

 

[Maxperson]

This is why I have 12-sided and 8-sided d4's now. I hate those little pyramidal bar stewards!!

I don't mind the pyramid shape of the caltr...er, d4. I was a bit bitter for a while when I was in high school and I stepped on one in the middle of the night walking to the bathroom. I made that mistake once...................once. Pain is a good teacher.

 

[FrogReaver]

Read the spell text of Magic missile and the ability text for Evoker. I'm not going to type out the text.

I have. What you’re saying isn’t there.

 

[Willie the Duck]

The amount I heard it talked about, I felt it MUST have made it into Sage Advice!

The amount of hue and cry over game rulings has never correlated with either how 'official' they became, how officious the ruler was trying to be, or what question they were answering (what they thought the rule said, what it was supposed to say, or what they thought it should be).

The correct thing to do when presented with a strange edge case like this would have been to errata the rule, rather than double down on RAW over RAI for 10 years. Buts that's just me being salty about how crawford did things.

The correct thing to do would have been to stick to the 'rulings over rules' ethos and only ever put out 'this is how I would address the situation' or 'this is what we were hoping to accomplish' type responses to rules questions. I'm on board with the notion that no exception-based ruleset of D&D's complexity can live up to modern online scrutiny* and that the 3e cult of RAW ended up being toxic, so exploring natural language and cultivating a culture of collaborative problem solving over rules lawyering is a reasonable endeavor, but then you need to practice what you preach/exemplify the behavior.
*not that TSR-era rules didn't have similar issues.

Remember how everyone freaked out when they turned MM into a useful spell but required a hit roll?

I'm so glad they returned it to being useless!

When was that? 4E?

Correct

Technically also oD&D and B(Holmes). Tim Kask says he had to argue with the (fighter-loving) EGG in favor of making Magic Missile auto-hit to give the poor low-level magic user something worthwhile to do*. *note: not my personal opinion. IMO, Sleep or saving your memorization slots for utility spells was almost always a better course of action.

What was useful about potentially missing with a magic missile?

I believe the trade-off was that in the 4e damage was increased to a more reasonable-in-face-of-modern-D&D-hp-total level. Honestly, either way has its limitations -- assuming you cast the spell to drop enemies you are 'sure*' are near 0 hp, you can either have a sure-hit doing 1d4+1 against an opponent who could have 1-6 hp left, or you can do 2d4+int mod, but have to roll to hit.
*but unless the DM puts little glowing numbers above their heads, you don't actually know

 

[Maxperson]

Sorry, where’s the rules backing all this up? The only one I see cited is the multi targeting rule.

The separate die for each missile is in the Magic Missile spell where it says that "Each dart strikes a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart does 1d4+1 force damage to its target." That's clearly making each dart an individual damage roll.

The Evoker ability clearly says it applies to only one damage roll of the spell, so it doesn't matter if you target one creature or three with the Magic Missiles, only only get to apply the extra damage to one of the damage rolls since it is a single spell.

Your third question is answered by the second. Since you can only apply the damage to one damage roll in the spell, it doesn't matter how you choose to target the missiles, only one missile can benefit from the Evoker ability since each missile is a separate damage roll. You roll all 8d6 for the ONE fireball at the same time. You don't get 8 small fireballs that each do 1d6. So fireball is one damage roll. You do roll each Magic Missile separately, so the one spell has 3 damage rolls and only one of those rolls can benefit.

I'm really not sure how you can read this differently.

 

[ezo]

Technically also oD&D and B(Holmes). Tim Kask says he had to argue with the (fighter-loving) EGG in favor of making Magic Missile auto-hit to give the poor low-level magic user something worthwhile to do*. *note: not my personal opinion. IMO, Sleep or saving your memorization slots for utility spells was almost always a better course of action.
I believe the trade-off was that in the 4e damage was increased to a more reasonable-in-face-of-modern-D&D-hp-total level. Honestly, either way has its limitations -- assuming you cast the spell to drop enemies you are 'sure*' are near 0 hp, you can either have a sure-hit doing 1d4+1 against an opponent who could have 1-6 hp left, or you can do 2d4+int mod, but have to roll to hit.
*but unless the DM puts little glowing numbers above their heads, you don't actually know

IIRC I think Basic had magic missile deal 1d6+1 damage per missile. I had forgotten about that.

FWIW, I still think the spell is a decent spell in 5E. Having a spell deal guaranteed damage is pretty nice IMO and I use it from time to time. I do think making it two additional missiles per spell level when upcasted would make it more appealing in general, however.

 

[Voadam]

4e roll to hit Magic Missile also meant you could crit with it. 4e essentials turned it back into auto hit but at lower damage and no crit chance. I thought both options were good but preferred the roll to hit version. The roll to hit did +3 damage at levels 1-10, +2 damage at levels 11-20 and +5 damage at levels 21-30 plus potential crit (which becomes huge with add on common magic item crit bonuses, generally +1d6 to +6d6 extra to the maximized base damage) compared to the auto hit one.

Of note it was also an at will level 1 spell and not a level one encounter or daily spell, so essentially a 5e cantrip and not a 5e level one spell for power level purposes.

Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1
You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy.
At-Will ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: One creature
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Increase damage to 4d4 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level.
Special: This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can use this power.

Every mage learns this spell as part of his or her arcane studies. What magic missile lacks in strength, it compensates for with unparalleled accuracy. Neither the heaviest armor nor the toughest hide offers any defense against this spell.
Benefit: You gain the magic missile power.
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1
A glowing blue bolt of magical energy hurtles from your finger and unerringly strikes your target.
At-Will ✦ Arcane, Evocation, Force, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: One creature
Effect: 2 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Level 11: 3 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Level 21: 5 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Special: If the implement used with this power has an enhancement bonus, add that bonus to the damage. In addition, you can use this power as a ranged basic attack.