Magic Missile on Constructs

[Caliban]

DR is different than hardness. The only constructs with a hardness are animated objects (at least in the DMG), using slightly different rules than DR.

Magical attacks ignore DR but not hardness. Having said that I'd have to partially agree with Merak... a magic missle spell is an instantaneous effect, so I'd say that the object's hardness would be subtracted from the total damage done by such a spell.

You wouldn't roll a serperate caster level check to defeat SR when using magic missle vs. one creature, so the same mechanic should apply here IMO.

Each missile does it's damage seperately. That's why you can send it against different targets.

Against a target with hardness, I think each magic missile would have it's damage reduced seperately, meaning that it's useless against Animated Objects with a hardness of 5 or more. Same thing with Shuriken: you wouldn't add up their damage, it would be applied seperately.

magic missile is the most uber first level spell, but's it's not effective against everything.

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

Each missile does it's damage seperately. That's why you can send it against different targets.

That may be a house rule you use, but I don't think that's how I would interpret p.154 PHB Instantaneous Effects: "Two or more magical effects with instantaneous durations work cumulatively when they affect the same object, place, or creature".

So, yes you can send magic missles against different targets, but you'd still add all the damage vs. each target before subtracting hardness.

If it makes more sense to you to treat each missle seperately for purposes of hardness that's totally cool but I don't think that's how the rules handle instantaneous effects.

 

[Caliban]

That may be a house rule you use,

It's not a house rule, it's how I happend to interpret the rules in this instance

If you want to debate it, that's fine. You may even be right.

But don't immediately assume that any interpretation that disagrees with yours is automatically a "House Rule". It's rather arrogant.

but I don't think that's how I would interpret p.154 PHB Instantaneous Effects: "Two or more magical effects with instantaneous durations work cumulatively when they affect the same object, place, or creature".

As you say, it's one spell, so it's one magical effect. The damage that get's through the hardness is cumulative, but first it has to penetrate.

So, yes you can send magic missles against different targets, but you'd still add all the damage vs. each target before subtracting hardness.

If it makes more sense to you to treat each missle seperately for purposes of hardness that's totally cool but I don't think that's how the rules handle instantaneous effects.

If it makes more sense for you to house rule it your way, that's totally cool, but I don't think that's how the rules handle magic missiles vs. Hardness.

 

[Storm Raven]

If it makes more sense for you to house rule it your way, that's totally cool, but I don't think that's how the rules handle magic missiles vs. Hardness.

Of course, this entire debate is academic in the context of this thread. For the specific question of whether magic missile can affect golems, I direct everypne's attention to this passage from the SRD:

Magic Immunity (Ex): Golems completely resist most magical and supernatural effects, except where otherwise noted below.

If magic missile is not listed as an exception to this rule, it cannot affect a golem.

 

[Gez]

But don't immediately assume that any interpretation that disagrees with yours is automatically a "House Rule". It's rather arrogant.

[snippage]

If it makes more sense for you to house rule it your way, that's totally cool, but I don't think that's how the rules handle magic missiles vs. Hardness.

I'm just enjoyin' the irony.

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

One spell, one attack. p. 279: "Only damage in excess of the object's hardness is actually deducted frtom the oject's hit points upon a successful attack".

Each missle isn't considered a seperate attack. If you cast mm against a single creature with SR would you roll seperate caster levels checks for each missle? No... at least, you shouldn't.

Look homie, the missles hit the target all at once... it's one single attack. If you use a spiked club against an object, do you apply hardness against each spike? You mentioned shiurken in a recent post... if they're all used in one attack (i.e. one attack roll), then you'd add all the damage before subtracting hardness.

You play your house rule, I'll play mine. How's that?

Meanwhile, I'm whining to the Sage...

 

[Caliban]

Of course, this entire debate is academic in the context of this thread. For the specific question of whether magic missile can affect golems, I direct everypne's attention to this passage from the SRD:

Magic Immunity (Ex): Golems completely resist most magical and supernatural effects, except where otherwise noted below.

If magic missile is not listed as an exception to this rule, it cannot affect a golem.

Who asked about golems? The original poster was asking about constructs, he didn't specify golems.

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

For the specific question of whether magic missile can affect golems, I direct everypne's attention to this passage from the SRD

Thanks, but whether or not a magic missile affects golems isn't the issue. The issue is how said spell affects creatures with a hardness.

Golems don't have hardness, that's been addressed.

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

Caliban and I agree on something at least.

 

[Caliban]

One spell, one attack. p. 279: "Only damage in excess of the object's hardness is actually deducted frtom the oject's hit points upon a successful attack".

Each missle isn't considered a seperate attack.

Then I guess you can't send them against multiple targets. Oh wait, yes you can.

So you can make seperate attacks against different targets. And the spell specifically states that you get multiple missiles, not one big missile.

If you cast mm against a single creature with SR would you roll seperate caster levels checks for each missle? No... at least, you shouldn't.

No, because it's a single magical effect.

Look homie, the missles hit the target all at once... it's one single attack.

I'm not your "homie". Name calling doesn't help your case any.

If you use a spiked club against an object, do you apply hardness against each spike?

Can you direct each spine against a seperate target? I didn't think so.

You mentioned shiurken in a recent post... if they're all used in one attack (i.e. one attack roll), then you'd add all the damage before subtracting hardness.

That may be your "house rule", but by the core rules, throwing three shuriken takes three seperate attack rolls, not one attack roll. It just counts a single attack.

Check the FAQ if you don't believe it.

You play your house rule, I'll play mine. How's that?

*sigh* You don't get it do you?

A house rule is when you deliberately change the core rules for your campaign. There's nothing wrong with that, but this forum is dedicated to discussing the core rules, house rules have their own forum.

Telling someone that their rule interpretation is a house rule means that you think they are deliberately posting off-topic instead of answering the question.

Two people can disagree on a specific interpretation of the rules without it being a house rule.

I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure I'm right here, but you need to do a better job to convince me otherwise. Name calling and attitude aren't going to work.

Meanwhile, I'm whining to the Sage...

Not a bad idea.