Magic Missile on Constructs

[douga]

The reason I have see some people rule that they don't work against constructs/animated objects is that the Magic Missile description specifies that it does not work on "objects". I was wondering if anyone else has seen it ruled that way.

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

The reason I have see some people rule that they don't work against constructs/animated objects is that the Magic Missile description specifies that it does not work on "objects". I was wondering if anyone else has seen it ruled that way.

It specifies "inanimate objects", which to me indicates it can be used against animate objects.

 

[Caliban]

If you think my calling you "homie" constitutes "name calling" then we simply don't share the same cultural background, heritage, language nuances or marketing demographic. Ease back there, um... chum? Buddy? Compadre?

Probably true. I'm a 30 year old redneck white trash that grew up in a trailor park in Texas.

Anyways, whatever. I couldn't find the answer to our particular quandry in the FAQ. The letter to the Sage has been sent. What we have here is a rules question that I can't believe hasn't been addressed before, so until someone comes along with a link to the Answer or I get a letter from the Sage I'm gonna assume I'm right. 'Cause why not?

No reason you shouldn't. You may be right. I may be right.

I think I'm right, but I'm not 100% sure in this case. The rules don't go into much detail about hardness and animated objects.

Just don't tell me I'm using a house rule when I'm not. I know when I'm using house rules, and I generally don't bring them into this forum.

If you think I'm wrong, debate it with me. Don't try to shut it down by automatically declaring my interpretation a house rule.

 

[Caliban]

I always thought shurikens were thrown 3 at a time per attack roll. So if someone had 2 attacks a round at +7/+2 then they would get 6 shurikens, 3 at +7 and 3 at +2. Yep even says that you can throw 3 shurikens per attack in the PHB.

You can throw three shurikens per attack. But it takes a seperate attack roll for each shuriken.

So if you have attacks at +7/+2 (and the quickdraw feat), you would make six attack rolls at +7/+7/+7/+2/+2/+2.

Same thing for "volley" spells like Fire Arrow and the various Orb spells from Tome and Blood.

It's covered in the FAQ.

 

[Murrdox]

Ummm... Okay, just for the purposes of debate - I side with Icebear on how MM would affect hardness.


HOWEVER... all of you folks rule that MM affects objects, like constructs and animated objects?

Since the text of the spell says "living targets", we've always ruled that anything not "alive" is not affected by a magic missle.

Thus, shooting a magic missle at an animated candlestick has just as much affect at shooting it at a non-animated candlestick: Nothing.

We stretch the interpretation of "living" to include undead, but I don't see how animating an object suddenly makes it vulnerable to Magic Missle. Anything that isn't alive (or WAS alive) can't be affected by MM is how I've always done it.

 

[Janos Antero]

So what about Flame Arrow? That is another spell with multiple targets potentially. I tend to side with Caliban here in the fact that logically it should work like that.

Specifically rules-wise I'm not so sure though given the general way magic tends to work. Seems a big case of logic vs balance I suppose.

While SR and DR aren't identical, SR really should set the prescedent for magic, but that said, consider a weapon that does damage over time, such as Spiritual Weapon. If spiritual weapon has it's damage reduced by Hardness every round, magic missile likely would too.

The missiles all hit the same round, but not at the same time.

The missiles are all from one magic effect.

Spiritual Weapon hits over several rounds.

Spiritual Weapon is damage from one magic effect.

Just some general thoughts.

 

[kreynolds]

We stretch the interpretation of "living" to include undead...

Then why not stretch it to include animated objects?

...Anything that isn't alive (or WAS alive) can't be affected by MM is how I've always done it.

But undead aren't alive, yet you make a concession for them. Why not go ahead and include animated objects as well? I'm not trying to harp on you. I just like consistency.

 

[Janos Antero]

Well, it's a stretch, but you could rule that "living" means any matter that once was living.

So bone/flesh golems should be targetable by MM (not that it will damage them, but you can shoot them).

Bone/Flesh Golems having living flesh as much as undead do as well. That would rule out Iron Golems and the like, as I think was meant by that interpretation.

 

[drnuncheon]

Since the text of the spell says "living targets", we've always ruled that anything not "alive" is not affected by a magic missle.

From the SRD:

Magic Missile
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

A missile of magical energy darts forth from the character's fingertip and unerringly strikes its target. The missile deals 1d4+1 points of damage.

The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee or has anything less than total cover or concealment. Specific parts of a creature cannot be singled out. Inanimate objects cannot be damaged by the spell.

For every two levels of experience past 1st, the character gains an additional missile. The character has two at 3rd level, three at 5th level, four at 7th level, and the maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher. If the character shoots multiple missiles, the character can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. The character must designate targets before the character rolls for SR or roll damage.

Note that there's nothing there about 'living creatures' just 'animate objects', which definitely includes undead and constructs and 'creatures' which does as well.

 

[Murrdox]

Well crap. There I go sticking my foot in my mouth again because I didn't re-read the spell description before posting it.

When did they change it from "living" to "creature" and specify that only inanimate objects aren't affected? Ah well, guess it doesn't matter... we'll just have to switch things up in my group.

As to the other topic at hand then... if you have to beat hardness, then I'd say each individual missle has to do it, the same way that each individual shuriken would have to do it.