Magic missile too strong?

[DM-Rocco]

But a force missle mage (dragon mag)/argent hand (Complete Arcane)/force weaver (path of magic) would get 7 X 1d4+6 with his magic missile for a minimum of 49 and a max of 70 without a feat. Now maximize and empower that bad boy and you do 105 points of damage with a lil' ole magic missile. And it bypasses shield. That totally rocks! Of course, you're like 23rd level, but whatev.

Force Weaver, where is that from? There are way too many books out there

Age of mortals? Whats that?

A source book for Dragonlance campaign setting

 

[helium3]

The way I knew Magic Missle was overpowered was when our party sorceror, for the first ten levels, used it almost every single combat, usually multiple times.

In fact she used it so often that she found the need to calculate how many times she could use it, assuming she was converting higher level spell slots into magic missles.

She ROUTINELY used 4th level spell slots to cast magic missle.

In my group, your player would've withered under the onslaught of verbal abuse that would have been blasted in her direction. She used up 4th level slots to cast magic missle? That's absurd. Didn't the other players start complaining that she wasn't pulling her own weight?

 

[Sithobi1]

Seriously, EBT. How does Magic Missile stand up to that?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I am finding the argument that the MM is overpowered to be very weak. Would simply removing it from the game make the game more interesting for most players? I have my doubts.

The Sorceror class depends on lower level spells that are reasonable to sub into higher level slots through a wide range of play levels. The MM is the arcane equivalent of Cure Light Wounds. I personally think the Orb spells are every bit as powerful as MM, if not more so, but there does not exist a reasonable functional replacement for MM in core.

 

[Mistwell]

In my group, your player would've withered under the onslaught of verbal abuse that would have been blasted in her direction. She used up 4th level slots to cast magic missle? That's absurd. Didn't the other players start complaining that she wasn't pulling her own weight?

Wow. Then I wouldn't get along with your group. In our group, D&D isn't a competative sport. We don't verbally abuse players who do not play their characters the way we would have played them. As long as we are all having fun, then everyone is "pulling their own weight".

As for the absurdity of using a 4th level spell slot to cast a magic missle, I don't think it is absurd. Given this particular character's focus on utility-type spells rather than purely offensive spells, it can be a fine choice. Particularly in situtations where precision is required due to cover and combat conditions, and not blasting anyone else in the party is also required.

If someone could point me to the 4th level damage-dealing spell that always hits no matter what (other than full cover or things like that of course), and doesn't ever hit other PCs at the same time, and doesn't have any saving throw, then please do so. I'll suggest she pick up that spell at a later opportunity.

 

[Canaan]

Force Weaver, where is that from? There are way too many books out there

Force Weaver is from the book entitled Path of Magic. I think its a Legends and Lairs book. Not sure.

 

[Mistwell]

Seriously, EBT. How does Magic Missile stand up to that?

EBT covers a 20-ft.-radius spread, and hits everyone in that area. Surely it's come up in your games, many times, when you cannot use an area attack spell without harming your own party members.

Magic Missle does the following things:

Hits only the targets you want it to hit, and not your allies;
Always hits (except for the cases like total cover);
Does force damage so it effects even incorporeal targets;
Has no saving throw;
Increases both the number of targets and the damage dealt as your caster level increases, up to 9th level;
Is a first level spell.

Spells that require an attack roll, or a saving throw, or an area instead of precise target(s), just don't hold up in certain relatively common circumstances when compared to what magic missle can do.

It doesn't break the game obviously, but that doesn't mean that magic missle isn't overpowered. The biggest problem with overpowered things is that they make for more boring games. Overpowered options become almost mandatory options, and therefore get used instead of more interesting options more of the time. And while it may be difficult to detect that the level of "boringness" is higher than it should be in your game, it does have an impact.

You can see a bit of this even in this thread. When people say that Magic Missle is the arcane equivelent of Cure Light Wounds for a cleric, that's really saying that Magic Missle is required for the arcane caster. Despite the fact that the theme of the Cleric is intentionally oriented on curing people, and a class ability is to convert spells into cure spells, and many feats and prestige classes and domains and dieties are oriented around cure spells.

Magic Missle is not supposed to be a major theme of all arcane casters. It's not supposed to be the arcane equivelent of cure light wounds for a cleric. But the fact that some people think it IS the same thing just goes to show how overpowered it is, that people just assume every arcane caster selects that spell and casts it often.

 

[Jhulae]

Seriously, there are so many different counters for MM, it's not even funny.

I can think of at least four right off the bat, only one of which stops all spells from 3rd level and below.

Yeah, it's good for scrubs at higher levels, but many BBEGs will have the means to prevent being damaged by MM.

 

[Mistwell]

Seriously, there are so many different counters for MM, it's not even funny.

I can think of at least four right off the bat, only one of which stops all spells from 3rd level and below.

Yeah, it's good for scrubs at higher levels, but many BBEGs will have the means to prevent being damaged by MM.

The odds you will have the counter cast or on you at the time you are hit by the magic missle are very low. Shield has a small duration, spell-blockers have a short duration, the magic item that stops them is sub-optimal for that item slot, etc.. The odds are GREATLY in your favor that at least your first stream of magic missles will not be stopped by anything other than SR.

Plus all the other nifty applications of magic missle, like popping mirror images and other illusions, firing in from the outside of an arrow slit at distance, etc..

 

[3d6]

You can't fire magic missiles through all arrow slits. You need at least a 1 square foot hole to shoot a spell through. If the arrow slit is, for example, 3 feet high and 3 inches across, that wouldn't allow a spell through (except for fireball). I'm also not sure how magic missile is helpful against mirror image. You can't target the images, as magic missile must target a creature. A spell that fails to function because of invalid targeting surely isn't a "successful attack".