Magic Missile Vs. Constructs?

[Lhorgrim]

I was running a published adventure in which the PCs were attacked by an animated stone statue with the type "construct" and a hardness of 8.
How does magic missile affect this construct, if at all?

The description of MM says "inanimate objects are not affected by the spell", but the stone statue is technically an "animated" object.

So what do you say?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So what do you say?

It's a creature, so it's a valid target. Force damage, however, is subject to hardness. Good luck getting past hardness 8 with 1d4+1, or even (1d4+1) x 1.5...

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

Hardness is really really mean. DR and all Energy Resists combined into one source.

 

[DarkJester]

Does hardness apply to all energy types?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does hardness apply to all energy types?

Yes... and cold, fire, and electricity damage get divided before hardness is applied.

Note that a lot of Psionic energy powers ignore hardness if you choose Sonic as the energy type, but this is specific to the powers, not to Sonic damage in general.

-Hyp.

 

[Slaved]

Yes... and cold, fire, and electricity damage get divided before hardness is applied.

Note that a lot of Psionic energy powers ignore hardness if you choose Sonic as the energy type, but this is specific to the powers, not to Sonic damage in general.

-Hyp.

I have seen it argued both ways but from what it says I believe that sonic and acid damage ignore hardness.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I have seen it argued both ways but from what it says I believe that sonic and acid damage ignore hardness.

How is damage to objects calculated? Roll your dice and subtract hardness.
How is damage to creatures that have hardness calculated? Roll your dice and subtract hardness.

What about Cold damage? Divide the roll by 4 before applying hardness.
What about Fire and Electricity damage? Divide the roll by 2 before applying hardness.
What about Acid and Sonic damage? Apply damage normally after a successful hit.

How do you 'apply damage normally' to something that has hardness? You take the roll and subtract hardness.

For what it's worth, the FAQ originally had two contradictory answers; one stating that Acid, Sonic, and Force damage ignored hardness, and one stating that hardness applies to Acid, Sonic, and Force damage. The first has since been corrected to state that hardness applies, and there's also a note specifically addressing the debate:

Hardness applies to all types of damage unless specifically
stated otherwise by the effect. (Page 165 in the Player’s
Handbook is sometimes misinterpreted to suggest that hardness
doesn’t apply to acid and sonic damage; in fact, the phrase
“apply [damage] normally after a successful hit” simply means
that the damage isn’t halved or quartered, as other energy
damage is.)

-Hyp.

 

[Lhorgrim]

Thanks for the quick replies everybody.

It looks like I ruled correctly then. The player wanted me to rule that the "force" effect bypassed the hardness, but I treated the MM's as individual attacks and the player obviously couldn't do enough damage to overcome the hardness.

Thanks again.

 

[Slaved]

Unless of course the specific case overrides the general use. In this case it looks like it does going by the wording in the hardness section dealing with sonic and acid damage.

I wonder if complete arcane or one of the others brought up hardness and force damage specifically.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unless of course the specific case overrides the general use. In this case it looks like it does going by the wording in the hardness section dealing with sonic and acid damage.

The wording in the hardness section dealing with sonic and acid damage says damage is applied normally, contrasting with the other energy types where the damage is halved or quartered.

"Applied normally" includes subtracting hardness; that is normal when attacking something that has hardness. Halving damage isn't applying it normally; so while damage is applied normally for acid and sonic (roll then subtract hardness), it is not applied normally for fire or electricity (roll, divide by 2, apply hardness).

-Hyp.