D&D 5E Magic Missile vs. Mirror Image

[Sword of Spirit]

In the case of 5e it's just choosing natural language over jargon - also why it uses 'hit' in a sentence instead of having an effect line or some such.

Except in this case, many spells say "creature" and many say "target." I don't think they were just sloppy or goofed on all of those, since the wording of the rest of the game is more consistently precise (by 5e standards). I'm pretty sure creature is intended to mean only creature. The why's are still mysterious. I'm sure it isn't about game balance.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Except in this case, many spells say "creature" and many say "target." I don't think they were just sloppy or goofed on all of those

Not sloppy or 'goofed,' (OK, maybe a bit) just the natural flow of the language. One day you write creature or enemy, another target, because that's what sounded good in the sentence in question, at that moment. As opposed to writing every spell with a 'bible' of jargon and formulae at hand to produce a clear/precise/consistent 'technical manual' of a rulebook.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Not sloppy or 'goofed,' (OK, maybe a bit) just the natural flow of the language. One day you write creature or enemy, another target, because that's what sounded good in the sentence in question, at that moment. As opposed to writing every spell with a 'bible' of jargon and formulae at hand to produce a clear/precise/consistent 'technical manual' of a rulebook.

Sword of Spirit ‏@Sword_of_Spirit 3h3 hours ago @JeremyECrawford Can attack spells that specify creature (eldritch blast, ray of frost, etc) hit objects, or is the phrasing intentional?

Jeremy Crawford ‏@JeremyECrawford 3h3 hours ago If the text says "creature" or "object," it means creature or object.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Glad you got a tweet answering your question about creature vs object, but you didn't need to quote something of mine unrelated, you could have just used the @ and mentioned me, I'd've still seen it.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Sorry for the confusion. I thought your original thoughts were relating to the sort of thing I was asking about in the tweet, and was distracted trying to copy and paste from Twitter (I can't figure out an effective way to copy from the site, which always irritates me).

 

[Lord Twig]

Sword of Spirit ‏@Sword_of_Spirit 3h3 hours ago @JeremyECrawford Can attack spells that specify creature (eldritch blast, ray of frost, etc) hit objects, or is the phrasing intentional?

Jeremy Crawford ‏@JeremyECrawford 3h3 hours ago If the text says "creature" or "object," it means creature or object.

And this is why I hate Twitter...

First, Jeremy could have cleared things up a lot by saying, "No, a spell can't hit an object if it only targets creatures." That would be a lot clearer. But he seems to have an aversion to using "Yes" or "No".

Second, there is no explanation as to why eldritch blast or ray of frost can't hit an object.

Third, this is no description of how a caster is prevented from targeting an invalid target. Does the spell just fail? Does a mysterious force impede his casting? Does the spell go off and hit, but just has no effect?

We have no idea! Because a complete answer can't be given in 140 characters or less!

So frustrating!

 

[Tony Vargas]

Third, this is no description of how a caster is prevented from targeting an invalid target. Does the spell just fail? Does a mysterious force impede his casting? Does the spell go off and hit, but just has no effect?

We have no idea!

But we do have DMs. ;P

Seriously, though, all three of those points, but the one quoted particularly, aren't perfectly clear, and probably don't (maybe even shouldn't) have the same answer for every spell in every situation. What happens when I shoot a door with ray of frost - nothing, because giving a door hypothermia has no effect. What happens when I shoot a mirror image with ray of frost - it popps, because it's purpose in life is to get hit by an attack vs AC that'd've otherwise hit the caster. What happens when I shoot my drink with ray of frost - it becomes icy cold and extra refreshing (no it doesn't dispel exhaustion, yes even 'heat exhaustion').

And, of course, it's magic, so the answer could be pretty weird, like a spell just fizzling with a cosmic raspberry because you didn't do it right.

 

[Lord Twig]

But we do have DMs. ;P

Seriously, though, all three of those points, but the one quoted particularly, aren't perfectly clear, and probably don't (maybe even shouldn't) have the same answer for every spell in every situation. What happens when I shoot a door with ray of frost - nothing, because giving a door hypothermia has no effect. What happens when I shoot a mirror image with ray of frost - it popps, because it's purpose in life is to get hit by an attack vs AC that'd've otherwise hit the caster. What happens when I shoot my drink with ray of frost - it becomes icy cold and extra refreshing (no it doesn't dispel exhaustion, yes even 'heat exhaustion').

And, of course, it's magic, so the answer could be pretty weird, like a spell just fizzling with a cosmic raspberry because you didn't do it right.

And what you describe is probably very close to how I would run things.

However, I could totally see a DM (particularly a new one) saying, "No, you can't shoot your drink with a Ray of Frost because you can only target creatures with it." And then be confused himself as to why.

So a little advice on how to role-play it out would be helpful. Maybe a few examples of how it could be run, but a statement that it depends on the situation and the judgement of the DM. But instead we get, "If the text says "creature" or "object," it means creature or object." and no advice or suggestions on how to run it at all.

I was active on the Paizo forums for a while and when you got a response from a dev there it was usually a complete thought. With explanations, suggestions and nuance. Not always, but usually.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I'm sorry, but I cannot get behind any wording or ruling on magic missile which does not allow a wizard to attack "the darkness".

 

[77IM]

I'm sorry, but I cannot get behind any wording or ruling on magic missile which does not allow a wizard to attack "the darkness".

Are there any girls there?!?!