D&D 5E Magic Missile vs. Mirror Image

Fireball is not an attack, does not call for a spell attack in its description, and is not made with the attack action.

Yup, you are correct. This is what happens when I type quickly.


Still, spells that have an attack roll are considered attacks. They do not use the Attack action, they use the Cast a Spell action. But, they are still attacks.

PHB page 193 under Making an Attack.
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.

I merely view Magic Missile as an attack that does not have an attack roll because it autohits. It's a special case of an attack. Other spells like Acid Splash or Fireball do not "hit". Magic Missile does. It just bypasses the normal mechanic by its own definition.
 

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Sorry, you cannot use the "it's not a creature" for one spell and not use it for all spells. That defense of your interpretation doesn't work.

'Creature' is the same definition for each spell. Mirror image has the potential to move the target from the valid (creature) to a (usually invalid) image, and only because it specifically says it can. It doesn't turn images into creatures, it just moves a validly targetted spell to a new target: an image.

There are a lot of different attacks in 5E that do not use an attack roll. Grapples, Fireballs. These are still attacks though and still use the Attack action. They are not attacks that use an attack roll.

If only there was some definition in the PHB....wait, there is! The question we are asking is, "Does magic missile count as an attack?"

We have our definition: "If there’s ever any question whether something you’re doing counts as an attack..." Yes, that's the question we're asking! "...the rule is simple: if you’re making an attack roll, you’re making an attack"

And yes, Mirror Image typically only stops those attacks that have attack rolls because its mechanic uses AC to determine whether a hit occurs.

JC said, "The mirror image spell has no effect on magic missile, which doesn't involve an attack".

It's clear. To count as an attack in 5E, it must have an attack roll. Unless there is a written exception, such as grapples and shoves ("Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them"). Neither fireball nor magic missile have attack rolls or specific language saying that they are 'attacks', so they are not, RAW.

Unfortunately, just like Mirror Image trumps the "creature" language of Shocking Grasp, Magic Missile trumps the "AC" language of Mirror Image.

It has no language saying any such thing.

Magic Missile explicitly states that it hits its target. Explicitly. Mirror Image loses an image if the image is targeted (controlled by the Mirror Image mechanics) by an attack that "hit" it.

It does not have language that says that it's an attack! MM works by changing the target of an attack. It has no effect on things that are not attacks. Spells do exactly what they say they do; it says it affects attacks, it doesn't mention anything about things that are not attacks, therefore it has no effect on things that are not attacks.

This is a special corner case. Hence the reason people are discussing it. Both interpretations are totally valid. Yes, you have your preference, but there is nothing that indicates that your preference is the only valid interpretation. People wouldn't be discussing it for so many pages if it were crystal clear.

First, people are discussing it either because they don't understand the rule or because they are still thinking about the way these spells worked in previous editions where MM definitely could take out images, and MM was ideal for doing so. It just doesn't work that way in 5E, according to both the RAW and Sage Advice of the writer of those rules.

Second, although people can use whatever house rule they want, the actual rules for this situation cannot be legitimately interpreted either way. In this case one interpretation is correct and one is not.

Once again, "The mirror image spell has no effect on magic missile, which doesn't involve an attack", according to the final authority on RAW. Remember that this debate is about what the actual written rules are, not what anyone's house rule may be.
 

I'm probably totally cool with just ruling that the caster of MM can choose whether they want any give missile to "pop" image(s), and/or hit the caster.
 



I see the point, but I still feel as though it leads to some weird situations.

For example, firing a magic missile at an object does nothing. But, firing a magic missile at an animated object does damage (or so I assume). Firing a magic missile at a chest also has different effects depends upon if the chest is actually a chest or a mimic.


I also feel like your interpretation that invalid targets can still be targeted still means there is some ambiguity because the mirror images of the caster would be invalid targets, which is what my original reasoning is based upon. Then again, how I see the spells working in my mind do not appear to match the programming language of D&D rules. In the end, what I believe doesn't matter because I'm not the person who wrote the rules.

I think the spell would fail if a creature is not identified in the casters mind. If you're not targeting a creature then magic missile cannot be triggered. Basically "target acquisition failed" and the trigger is useless.
 

Given that Magic Missile functions like a special AoE spell (one damage roll for all missiles), it's non-interaction with Mirror Image falls in line with other AoE damage.
 

Given that Magic Missile functions like a special AoE spell (one damage roll for all missiles), it's non-interaction with Mirror Image falls in line with other AoE damage.

Except that You have to Pick a Single target. That is hard to do if you cant differentiate the REAL target from the duplicates?
The Rules are suck on this :)
LOL
 

I think the spell would fail if a creature is not identified in the casters mind. If you're not targeting a creature then magic missile cannot be triggered. Basically "target acquisition failed" and the trigger is useless.

THAT is how we play it around My table OR If the player wants They can guess which is the real one and go for it. if they hit the real one great, if they Hit a fake one it dispels that fake one. It works well for our group and the player has the power to make the decision
 

Except that You have to Pick a Single target. That is hard to do if you cant differentiate the REAL target from the duplicates?
The Rules are suck on this :)
LOL

They are pretty clear to me. Mirror Image doesn't prevent or make more difficult someone from targeting you. It just makes attacks possibly miss. Magic Missile isn't an attack, it's a spell. It's no different than if someone wanted to cast hex on the MI'd mage (or Cure Wounds or Enlarge or anything else like that). Magic Missile happens to deal damage for an effect, but it's *not* an attack.
 

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