magic missle house rules?

[Gwarok]

637 damage in MM? How many apprentices did he have? Even high level characters need to take a few precautions if they wanna tangle with 100 or so spellcasters.

And Im not sure having MM as a continual damage spell doesn't wreck its purity and hopelessly complicate matters.

 

[Coredump]

Probably.

. When I realized that the wizard's apprentices could deal an average of 637 damage in a round - with no chance of missing - to any PC without a shield spell or spell resistance, I was dumbfounded. .

Guy, that is 182 missles. That would be a hell of a force of mages, using *any* spell. Heck, using a 1hp damage cantrip, that is close to a 'smackdown' level of damage.

If you are playing in a world where you can have 150+ mages as followers.... well I guess it makes sense to worry about MM.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Guy, that is 182 missles. That would be a hell of a force of mages, using *any* spell. Heck, using a 1hp damage cantrip, that is close to a 'smackdown' level of damage.

If you are playing in a world where you can have 150+ mages as followers.... well I guess it makes sense to worry about MM.

Though in this case, if the party wizard or sorceror wins Initiative, the damage can be significintally reduced. (Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Cone of Cold, heck).

And there is the question if 150 mages can be on a single battlefield. If the answer is no, then it`s merely a very theoretical situation.

 

[Darklone]

My MM houserule: I don't use it. The players may take it if they wish... but it's boring and will be penalized by boring opponents.

I mucho mucho prefer several similar elemental damage spells like Flame Bolt in Rituals& Relics.

 

[KarinsDad]

My MM houserule: I don't use it. The players may take it if they wish... but it's boring and will be penalized by boring opponents.

Penalized???


In any case, I think some people are overreacting here.

I've been running a Sorcerer who until recently only had Mage Armor and Magic Missile.

Big deal.

D4+1 damage a few times per day.

When she got to 3rd level, 2D4+2. Whoopie!!

She still is nowhere near in power to the Barbarian or the Fighter in the group. Most of the time, she hangs back and uses a crossbow and usually only drops the Magic Missile down on an opponent attempting to flee (or sometimes as a Readied action against an enemy spellcaster).


Especially for Sorcerers, there are many levels of doing only a few points of damage with Magic Missile before it actually starts doing any real combat affecting damage at higher levels. I have absolutely ZERO problem with a player bidding his time for months and months and months with dinky Magic Missile damage before it starts increasing in power. To me, that is the players reward for picking MM in the first place (granted, with 3.5 rules, a sorcerer could more easily pick up MM much later on).

 

[Urbannen]

Agreed.

 

[Storm Raven]

I kept the damage the same, and the fact that the spell has no save. I just made the spell require a ranged touch attack for each missile. That makes it slightly less of an "auto-damage" spell, but keeps the attack roll well within the reach of most wizards and sorcerers. It also allows the use of the various ranged feats in conjunction with the spell.

 

[Darklone]

I penalize the spell because I don't like the style. Every spell IMHO should have an attack roll or a saving throw.

And I've seen too many wizards and sorcerers at level 10 or so use that spell all the time because it was more effective than fireballs, lightning bolts and all the rest (perhaps due to a DM who preferred angels and devils and demons as opponents).

 

[jgsugden]

Guy, that is 182 missles. That would be a hell of a force of mages, using *any* spell. Heck, using a 1hp damage cantrip, that is close to a 'smackdown' level of damage.

If you are playing in a world where you can have 150+ mages as followers.... well I guess it makes sense to worry about MM.

That number was generated by using wizard followers using the leadership feat. It was a high level game and the wizard in question had a high charisma. His leadership score for purposes of followers was 25.

In truth, most of those low level wizards would have been killed before they fired off a missile. But, the remainder could easily have killed off a PC with coordinated attacks.

My point, however, was not really the total damage. It was that a first level spell cast by low level beings can be effective against a high level opponent. The 'auto-hit' nature makes the spell too strong. If there was a saving throw or attack roll involved, the value of the spell would be far mroe appropriate for a 1st level spell.

 

[orangefruitbat]

MM is easy to counter with shield spells though (or broaches of shielding). Every wizard in my campaign takes shield to counter the ubiquitious MM.

Of course, one of my players is researching an 'improved magic missle' that can penetrate the shield spell. Details on levels and damage haven't been worked out theough.

If this spell becomes popular, than an 'improved shield' spell will be developed. And so the magical arms race continues.

That number was generated by using wizard followers using the leadership feat. It was a high level game and the wizard in question had a high charisma. His leadership score for purposes of followers was 25.

In truth, most of those low level wizards would have been killed before they fired off a missile. But, the remainder could easily have killed off a PC with coordinated attacks.

My point, however, was not really the total damage. It was that a first level spell cast by low level beings can be effective against a high level opponent. The 'auto-hit' nature makes the spell too strong. If there was a saving throw or attack roll involved, the value of the spell would be far mroe appropriate for a 1st level spell.