Grog said:
On the other hand, those 150+ 1st level wizards could all have prepared Charm Person instead. The odds of rolling 4 natural 1s on 150 saves is much greater than 50-50.
I really don't see the balance problem with MM. Fireball is a 3rd level spell that does more damage, inflicts its full damage to multiple creatures, and has a longer range. They seem roughly in balance to me.
Apples and oranges. I'm comparing damage spells. MM is far better than other spells of 1st level. I tend to agree that fireball and magic missile are in balance with each other (with a slight edge towards fireball, perhaps). The problem is that these spells are 2 levels apart. Fireball may have a larger area of effect, but that is a two edged sword. Fireball can be hard to use in large battles when your allies and your enemies begin to get mingled together. And you just try telling your party rogue not to get in flanking position around the BBEG.
Lamoni said:
I disagree. I agree that it is better than other 1st level spells in combat, but it is still an appropriate 1st level spell. Other 1st level spells still serve their purpose. I would argue that the problem doesn't lie with magic missile, but with the other combat spells. However, I also dislike having 4-5 different spells that accomplish the same thing. So as soon as you change the other spells to match magic missile in combat power, you should then merge them all into the same spell and you would end up where you started. Magic missile is the standard combat spell and isn't used for anything else. Therefore it should be better at what it is designed for than anything else.
An area of effect spell that deals fire damage will always be different than a magic missile spell.
The abilities of magic missile are too strong. Never misses? No energy resistance? That is just too strong. This spell needs to lose one of those qualities to be balanced.
Lamoni said:
What other 1st level spells do you find poor in comparison? Burning hands is still a very useful spell because of the fire damage. Shocking grasp still compares nicely with damage, but it could possibly be eliminated because it serves the same purpose as MM. Chill touch should be eliminated because it tries to do two things, but does neither one well. Ray of enfeeblement drains more strength and MM does more damage. I just still don't see a problem with MM. Rather than comparing it to other first level spells (which shouldn't be designed as being equivalent), maybe it would be better to compare its damage to the damage of other classes. It doesn't outpace the fighter or barbarian in dealing damage at any level so therefore it is properly balanced.
Doesn't outpace the fighter or barbarian? A 10th level barbarian with a 30 strength (when raged) and a +5 weapon has a BAB of +25, gets 2 attacks and does about 30 damage per strike. Against a foe with an
AC of 45, his expected damage for a round is roughly 3 points. This first level spell cast by a 9th level wizard does 17.5 damage to the same target (unless empowered or maximized to be more effective).
This isn't exactly a 'corner case' situation, though the example above is a bit extreme. High ACs are not that rare. When you take into account damage resistance and other abilities that reduce physical attacks, this type of situation arises often.
In some situations, like the one above, this spell far outpaces pretty much everything out there. An attack that never misses and deals damage that can only be resisted with select short duration spells (or a special broach) is really strong in certain situations.
Regardless, it is in 3.5 and that isn't going to change. To that extent, this entire discussion is moot.
).
