Magic Touch Attacks

[Salasis]

It would seem to me a touch attack to release a spell like shocking grasp or Imprisonment would be BAB+Dex+any other modifiers. But i can't find anywhere in the book where it sais it would be DEX instead of STR. It makes no sense at all for the check to be strength based i just wanted to see if their was a revision or if it is in the book and i just missed it.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Typically melee distance = STR, Ranged distance = DEX.

 

[Salasis]

i understand that but does using str make sense to you for a magic touch attack? what is he applying his str to? to me dex makes more sense but the book doesn't support that. Wonding if their was something i missed or a reason for str to be used that i wasn't thinking of.

 

[Nebten]

Nope, dem's da rules. You haven't missed or misread anything. If you don't like the rules, you or your DM can house rule it differently. There is a feat that does what you ask, "Weapon Finesse." A touch attack is considered a "light weapon." Welcome to D&D.

 

[HoboGod]

Dexterity is about how well you can react quickly and accurately. Strength is about your entire body. Take a look at a boxer, once. His punches are fast because he uses almost every muscle in his body from head to toe at the same time. That's how it works in dnd. If you don't have the strength to spring out at somebody, you probably wont catch them. If you take Weapon Finesse, it illustrates a level of training that didn't come naturally. The young disciple doesn't eventually snatch the pebble from his master's hand because he becomes quicker, his master is an old man who was likely slower the entire time. He snatches the pebble because, through patience and repetition, the disciple develops and refines his abilities.

 

[Empirate]

I also imagine the enemy trying to block your efforts at landing that touch attack. In order to get by his blocking shield/grasping tentacles/snapping mouthpieces, you need to be able to employ your body's weight and shove aside his defenses. Str is more important for that than Dex.

 

[Is_907]

Dexterity is about how well you can react quickly and accurately. Strength is about your entire body. Take a look at a boxer, once. His punches are fast because he uses almost every muscle in his body from head to toe at the same time. That's how it works in dnd. If you don't have the strength to spring out at somebody, you probably wont catch them. If you take Weapon Finesse, it illustrates a level of training that didn't come naturally. The young disciple doesn't eventually snatch the pebble from his master's hand because he becomes quicker, his master is an old man who was likely slower the entire time. He snatches the pebble because, through patience and repetition, the disciple develops and refines his abilities.

I also imagine the enemy trying to block your efforts at landing that touch attack. In order to get by his blocking shield/grasping tentacles/snapping mouthpieces, you need to be able to employ your body's weight and shove aside his defenses. Str is more important for that than Dex.

I've never heard this explained so clearly! Thanks guys.

I often house rule it to be a dex based attack... but it really depends on the situation, the character, and mood heh.
If it's something that can't dodge or flail much to get in your way, I may say dex is more acceptable.

Here's a thought, though: how long do you have to maintain this touch for the spell to take effect? 1 second? 6 seconds?
If it's just "touch and release" then dex might make more sense, right? A tap rather than a punch, if you will.

Just some thinking out loud. 75-80% of the time I rule this RAW, but on occasion run it the other way, so like to think through it all.

 

[HoboGod]

I'd say it would vary. If there's a verbal aspect to the spell, you probably have to be touching them long enough to whisper "By the power of mighty storms on darkest days, let my clutch be the vessel of your destruction" or shout loudly "Shocking GRASP!!!". It all depends if your wizard is Lina Inverse or Son Goku. In either case, I think your opponent sees it coming and will try their damnedest to avoid you and simply trying to tap them wont cut it. Try pretending to sneeze and then giving the person you're next to a little tap with that hand. They'll dodge pretty quick if you're not doing a slap.

 

[Greenfield]

I also imagine the enemy trying to block your efforts at landing that touch attack. In order to get by his blocking shield/grasping tentacles/snapping mouthpieces, you need to be able to employ your body's weight and shove aside his defenses. Str is more important for that than Dex.

Um, that blocking shield and/or tentacles? As soon as I touch them, I've delivered the touch attack.

Shields and natural armor (blocking tentacles) don't count towards your touch AC.

 

[irdeggman]

Here's a thought, though: how long do you have to maintain this touch for the spell to take effect? 1 second? 6 seconds?
If it's just "touch and release" then dex might make more sense, right? A tap rather than a punch, if you will.

How long should the end of your rapier have to contact the enemy to do damage?

Similar sort of comparison, a weapon that is considered a "light weapon" for purposes of applying weapon finesse (and power attack).

RAW answer - it is part of your "attack", so however long you make that take.

The attack roll reflects being able to make sufficient contact to do "damage", which is why it is possible to miss a touch attack. D&D RAW has no "glancing blows", that is color text to describe the combat but no in game mechanic to apply.