Magic Users too Tough??

[Dark Dragon]

I don't see a big problem about that fighter vs wizard thing. I'm DMing an epic campaign (PCs at level 24), the party has a paladin15/cleric (fighting with a holy avenger), a fighter4/cleric (fighting with a +3 bastard sword), two wizard guys and a druid.

Against foes with quite high SR (40 and more is not that difficult for epic challenges), it came down to the paladin and the cleric to smack the opponent and it was the wizard's and the druid's job to help the front line to survive and fight more effectively (bark skin, stone skin, haste, heal, brilliant aura, mind blank...are all nice spells) and, not to forget, to counter spells!

So, every character type has to play an important role to help the party to survive and proceed on its mission.

 

[Parlan]

"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style"?

darn, what book are you quoting from Hyp? trying to remember has been driving me nuts all day.

 

[andargor]

darn, what book are you quoting from Hyp? trying to remember has been driving me nuts all day.

Vlad Taltos, Jhereg by Steven Brust

Andargor

 

[LordBOB]

i kinda got bored reading about the fighter vs Wizard so i came up with something else.

You all can keep your lv. 15 fighter and wizard , and ill take a lv.17 Druid and DESTROY all that stand before me!!!! *evil laugh*

Let them double team the druid.....its no problem. They will only get DESTROYED!!!!

 

[pbd]

Too answer both these questions take a 10th level Fighter (NO Magic Items) and pitch him against a 10th Level Magic User (Only allowed magic Items he himself created), then get back to me.

Cheers.

Since the wizard has magic items and the fighter doesn't, it is not a fair comparison. It doesn't matter that the mage made them himself.

Another problem with this scenario; the wizard, ater spending experience to MAKE the magic itmes, won't be 10th level anymore. That may help even the odds.

If you compare the two with descent builds (not necessarily straight fighter, which is, arguably, best suited to augment other classes) and standard wealth and things become much more even.

Basically,mif you de everything to skew the test in favor of the wizard, the wizard will win. If not, eh (shrug)..

 

[Nail]

iYou all can keep your lv. 15 fighter and wizard , and ill take a lv.17 Druid and DESTROY all that stand before me!!!! *evil laugh*

...So long as you get to also pick the terrain, encounter distance, and equipment. Gotcha. :\

 

[Felix]

The fact is there is NOTHING a Fighter of 15th level can do that a MU can't unless he's loaded up with Magic Items

How about attack 3 times in a round?

 

[irdeggman]

Or

Improved two weapon fighting (2 attacks with off hand) combined with greater weapon specialization (+4 damage with each hit and if applied to the same weapon in both hands)

Could conceivably even have Greater Two Weapon fighting which gives 3 attacks with the off hand.

So a total of 6 attacks in a round each with +4 damage (greater weapon specialization) or even more if using power attack and not counting Str bonus.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

How about attack 3 times in a round?

Done.

Transformation
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6

...

You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level (which may give you multiple attacks).
...

 

[irdeggman]

But the rest of the spell. . .

You become a virtual fighting machine— stronger, tougher, faster, and more skilled in combat. Your mind-set changes so that you relish combat and you can’t cast spells, even from magic items.

You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +5 competence bonus on Fortitude saves, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level (which may give you multiple attacks).

You lose your spellcasting ability, including your ability to use spell activation or spell completion magic items, just as if the spells were no longer on your class list.
Material Component: A potion of bull’s strength, which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).

So now the wizard is a weaker fighter since he can't acquire the fighter's bonus combat feats and his wizard bonus feats are useless for the duration of the spell. Let's see a +4 enhancement bonus yields a whopping +1 attack/damage bonus and since the wizard is most likely starting with a much lower Str than the fighter in the first place. . .

Nope still can't get to the 6 attacks with a whole slew of extra damage range when at most a wizard can cast 2 spells in a round and then only if one is Quickened.

Bottom line each class has its advantages and disadvantages and each will shine and excel given the right circumstances.