Magical adept level 1 spell.

[Mistwell]

10 gp might be a trivial sum in your game. Compare it with magic item prizes. It is not that trivial actually... at least in our current game.

Then your current game has houseruled the treasure lists. 10gp is a trivial amount. The game assumes, after the first few levels, that 10gp should be nearly meaingless to your party. It's so meaningless that the beta rules were going to allow people to just get anything around that price for free as a hand-waive. In any published adventure beyond the first few levels, you can routinely find things worth 10gp that parties are expected to leave behind because it's simply not worth the hassle - even easily removed items like a silver fork. If it's not that way in your game, that's probably a quirk of your game and not representative of most games.

Also 5e isn't big on the concept of "minions". Unlike 4e, most things have a decent chunk of hit points in this game, and can hurt you. If you cost them their action, that's a pretty good result. Lots of first level spells are aimed at doing just that, and usually with a saving throw. If you're getting them to spend their action without a save (and they STILL might miss), that's not a bad use of a first level spell. And in practice we've found it's not that common - because they know they can choose to attack the owl that's flying by with a readied action, or they can choose to attack a party member and ignore the owl for now, and usually they will choose the later.

And if you don't allow owls to do a flyby help action...that's another houserule. I think it's a fair one, but it's not how they're written. It has a 60 flight speed, can break up it's movement with a help action like anyone else could, and "The owl doesn't provoke opportunity attacks when it flies out of an enemy's reach." So by the rules, it works fine and the only way to swat it would be to ready an action to attack it when it comes within your melee range.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Then your current game has houseruled the treasure lists. 10gp is a trivial amount. The game assumes, after the first few levels, that 10gp should be nearly meaingless to your party. It's so meaningless that the beta rules were going to allow people to just get anything around that price for free as a hand-waive. In any published adventure beyond the first few levels, you can routinely find things worth 10gp that parties are expected to leave behind because it's simply not worth the hassle - even easily removed items like a silver fork. If it's not that way in your game, that's probably a quirk of your game and not representative of most games.

Also 5e isn't big on the concept of "minions". Unlike 4e, most things have a decent chunk of hit points in this game, and can hurt you. If you cost them their action, that's a pretty good result. Lots of first level spells are aimed at doing just that, and usually with a saving throw. If you're getting them to spend their action without a save (and they STILL might miss), that's not a bad use of a first level spell. And in practice we've found it's not that common - because they know they can choose to attack the owl that's flying by with a readied action, or they can choose to attack a party member and ignore the owl for now, and usually they will choose the later.

And if you don't allow owls to do a flyby help action...that's another houserule. I think it's a fair one, but it's not how they're written. It has a 60 flight speed, can break up it's movement with a help action like anyone else could, and "The owl doesn't provoke opportunity attacks when it flies out of an enemy's reach." So by the rules, it works fine and the only way to swat it would be to ready an action to attack it when it comes within your melee range.

I think it is noce how you trivialize the first few levels. Exactly the part of the game where a little helper is not easily killed with trivial effort.
I am not sure how the hp of an enemy minion are relevant to this discussion. But in a fight against 4 goblins with bows, I'd rather have a shield spell ready than losing my familiar to an easy shot. I'd also rather have the owl trail a fleeing goblin later on.

Also there is a difference between paying 10gp and 1 hour once per week or after every other combat.

To my "houserule"... it is not 100% clear how you interpret it...

Relevant quote:
"Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you."
It is by no means clear what happens if the target is not within 5ft of you anymore. If all the owl does is flyby I'd say it is rather not helping at all. I totally know that I am using the wiggle room to male my ruling. But it is not in houserule territory.

Edit:
You could also be really mean if you use the working together rule:

"Working Together

Sometimes two or more characters team up to attempt a task. The character who’s leading the effort—or the one with the highest ability modifier—can make an ability check with advantage, reflecting the help provided by the other characters. In combat, this requires the Help action (see chapter 9). A character can only provide help if the task is one that he or she could attempt alone. For example, trying to open a lock requires proficiency with thieves’ tools, so a character who lacks that proficiency can’t help another character in that task. Moreover, a character can help only when two or more individuals working together would actually be productive. Some tasks, such as threading a needle, are no easier with help."

Extrapolating it to attack rolls, that would mean the familar can't help in attacking because it can't attack itself.

 

[Mistwell]

I think it is noce how you trivialize the first few levels.

For a topic involving feats? Yes, I trivialize the first few levels. MOST characters won't even have the opportunity for a feat until level 4. Those few who can get it earlier are variant humans. So yeah it's fair that I am, for this particular topic, dismissing the first few levels. The overwhelming majority of time spent with this feat in games overall will in fact be outside the first few levels. We should all acknowledge that, as part of an honest discussion of the issue.

Also there is a difference between paying 10gp and 1 hour once per week or after every other combat.

It won't be every combat. In fact I can tell you from direct experience, and the experience of pretty much every single person who has posted to these message boards and the WOTC message boards (before they shut down) and Reddit that IN PRACTICE the familiar isn't dying every combat. Because it rapidly becomes apparent to the DM that wasting an action to MAYBE kill a familiar is not the best use of the foes actions (and doesn't make sense from a role playing aspect either, since the owl is a nuisance but the guy trying to kill them is the serious threat).

To my "houserule"... it is not 100% clear how you interpret it...

Relevant quote:
"Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you."
It is by no means clear what happens if the target is not within 5ft of you anymore.

It's clear. Nobody I have seen has every even vaguely argues that your help action has no effect if you move away from the target after taking the action. Nothing in the game supports that interpretation, no other rulings from Crawford or Mearls or others supports that intepretation, I can see no justification for that kind of ruling beyond a house rule. And I would argue it's a bad house rule by the way.

This is starting to feel like one of those hypothetical theoretical "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" type arguments. Are you even having this issue in a game, or are you just trying to game this conversation?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

For a topic involving feats? Yes, I trivialize the first few levels. MOST characters won't even have the opportunity for a feat until level 4. Those few who can get it earlier are variant humans. So yeah it's fair that I am, for this particular topic, dismissing the first few levels. The overwhelming majority of time spent with this feat in games overall will in fact be outside the first few levels. We should all acknowledge that, as part of an honest discussion of the issue.



It won't be every combat. In fact I can tell you from direct experience, and the experience of pretty much every single person who has posted to these message boards and the WOTC message boards (before they shut down) and Reddit that IN PRACTICE the familiar isn't dying every combat. Because it rapidly becomes apparent to the DM that wasting an action to MAYBE kill a familiar is not the best use of the foes actions (and doesn't make sense from a role playing aspect either, since the owl is a nuisance but the guy trying to kill them is the serious threat).



It's clear. Nobody I have seen has every even vaguely argues that your help action has no effect if you move away from the target after taking the action. Nothing in the game supports that interpretation, no other rulings from Crawford or Mearls or others supports that intepretation, I can see no justification for that kind of ruling beyond a house rule. And I would argue it's a bad house rule by the way.

This is starting to feel like one of those hypothetical theoretical "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" type arguments. Are you even having this issue in a game, or are you just trying to game this conversation?

I am sorry. You are not here to discuss, you are here to just dismiss everything because "it´s clear"...

But since we are speaking of annecdotical evidence: in every game I was playing, when the familiar starts getting annoying, like granting the rogue sneak attack every turn, they were killed.
I actually don´t need support for my reading. I do ruling as I see fit. And in this case I can see both ways and go with my ruling. There has been precedences of Crawford changing his mind when it comes to rulings. So some things are open for interpretation and I decided to go with my reading.
It is also a fact that magic initiate is one of the main feats a human takes at first level, because there another first level spell has a very high impact. Magic initiate at later levels is rather lackluster. You usually either have enough spells or a single first level spell does not cut it. There are a few characters that can make good use of it. Classes that don´t get extra attack and prefer to not use two weapon fighting. And maybe a few characters who want the shield spell and an attack cantrip because they don´t get it otherwise...

edit: you are also in the "my game is better and more true the "actual" rules than yours territory...

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Mage armor
Shield
Hex
Absorb elements
Identify
Detect magic
Comprehend languages
Faerie fire
Bless
Charm person

 

[5ekyu]

Then your current game has houseruled the treasure lists. 10gp is a trivial amount. The game assumes, after the first few levels, that 10gp should be nearly meaingless to your party. It's so meaningless that the beta rules were going to allow people to just get anything around that price for free as a hand-waive. In any published adventure beyond the first few levels, you can routinely find things worth 10gp that parties are expected to leave behind because it's simply not worth the hassle - even easily removed items like a silver fork. If it's not that way in your game, that's probably a quirk of your game and not representative of most games.

Also 5e isn't big on the concept of "minions". Unlike 4e, most things have a decent chunk of hit points in this game, and can hurt you. If you cost them their action, that's a pretty good result. Lots of first level spells are aimed at doing just that, and usually with a saving throw. If you're getting them to spend their action without a save (and they STILL might miss), that's not a bad use of a first level spell. And in practice we've found it's not that common - because they know they can choose to attack the owl that's flying by with a readied action, or they can choose to attack a party member and ignore the owl for now, and usually they will choose the later.

And if you don't allow owls to do a flyby help action...that's another houserule. I think it's a fair one, but it's not how they're written. It has a 60 flight speed, can break up it's movement with a help action like anyone else could, and "The owl doesn't provoke opportunity attacks when it flies out of an enemy's reach." So by the rules, it works fine and the only way to swat it would be to ready an action to attack it when it comes within your melee range.

Regarding the last sentence, in your example, barring very favorable cover the owl would be relatively easynpickings for a shot from most ranged folks or a dart from a magic missle while the others ho after others.

Flyby is fine and all, but its offset by the vulnerable place it tends to leave the familiar after it makes itself worth killing.

 

[Mistwell]

Regarding the last sentence, in your example, barring very favorable cover the owl would be relatively easynpickings for a shot from most ranged folks or a dart from a magic missle while the others ho after others.

Flyby is fine and all, but its offset by the vulnerable place it tends to leave the familiar after it makes itself worth killing.

Usually you'd return it to behind you. But generally speaking it's best used against melee foes...of which most monsters in the manual are focused on melee.

 

[5ekyu]

Usually you'd return it to behind you. But generally speaking it's best used against melee foes...of which most monsters in the manual are focused on melee.

Obviously, each table varies.

But in my experience more often than not whena PC party with casual casters etc get blessed with only fighting non-ranged enemies, its rarely a fight worth risking the familiar. There are just too many things a pretty basic typical party can do to enemy groups or solos that have no ranged capability.

Certainly, there would be circumstances, but it should me more often manageable without risking significant resources.

But on another point, since no GM i have ever seen (in play or at cons or syreaming), no guide to GMing recommends etc etc etc randomly picking monsters from the monster manual to determine what your players fight based on just a count of entries the citing of how "most of" the entries in the monster manual have abc trait vs def trait vs xyz feature is meaningless.

 

[Mistwell]

Obviously, each table varies.

But in my experience more often than not whena PC party with casual casters etc get blessed with only fighting non-ranged enemies, its rarely a fight worth risking the familiar. There are just too many things a pretty basic typical party can do to enemy groups or solos that have no ranged capability.

Certainly, there would be circumstances, but it should me more often manageable without risking significant resources.

But on another point, since no GM i have ever seen (in play or at cons or syreaming), no guide to GMing recommends etc etc etc randomly picking monsters from the monster manual to determine what your players fight based on just a count of entries the citing of how "most of" the entries in the monster manual have abc trait vs def trait vs xyz feature is meaningless.

I've played most of the official adventures put out by WOTC. And most encounters in those adventures feature enemies who primarily focus on melee attacks. And most feature dungeon like environments with relatively small rooms as a primary focus as well. So, I can only speak from experience, but given my experience is with the official adventures, I don't think it lacks representation.

 

[bedir than]

I kind of like the idea of an Outlander background with Alarm.