Magically Equipped vs. Unequipped - What is the Level Difference?

[el-remmen]

This thead about Disjunction in the Rules Forum got me thinking of a scenario.

Let's say you had a group of 12th level characters that lost all their magical equipment, potions, scrolls, weapons, armor, everything - but still had the best mundane equipment their money could buy them or their skills could make them.

What would be the average level of a group with standard equipment that would pose a credible threat (i.e. near equal in power)?

Obviously, it would be a lower level - but what level do you think that would be? How many more "levels" does standard equipment count as in your eyes?

 

[Lanefan]

Let's say you had a group of 12th level characters that lost all their magical equipment, potions, scrolls, weapons, armor, everything - but still had the best mundane equipment their money could buy them or their skills could make them.

What would be the average level of a group with standard equipment that would pose a credible threat (i.e. near equal in power)?

Obviously, it would be a lower level - but what level do you think that would be? How many more "levels" does standard equipment count as in your eyes?

A very rough guess might be 1 level per average "+" of the things lost. So, if the party lost a bunch of items averaging +2, that might roughly equate to losing two power levels. You'd have to make allowances in the event that most of the losses were not straight "+" items, but it's a start...

Lanefan

 

[Slaved]

I would say that the party would be about 2 CR lower than before.

Fighter types would be doing less damage and hitting less often plus their AC would be much lower.

Arcane spellcasters will have just the base AC (10+dex) and no buff to con so their chances of surviving a single full attack from a fighter type with actual magical gear is about zero.

Comparing to a 10th level party with full gear for their level vs a 12th level party with only the basic nonmagical gear would be very interesting. I think it would come out mostly even. The 12th level party would have the benefit of higher level abilities while the lower level party will have the benefit of gear.

 

[shilsen]

12th lvl PCs with no magical equipment would be about equal to a fully equipped 9th-10th lvl group. The variation is partly because the type of character makes a big difference to the dependence on equipment. A non-spellcaster probably loses a lot more than a spellcaster in this situation.

 

[Delta]

I've found it to be about 80% normal strength (by EL).

 

[maggot]

I think it is more like 2/3rds. It is definitely a fraction of the original CR/EL because the gap widens as levels increase.

 

[el-remmen]

I think it is more like 2/3rds. It is definitely a fraction of the original CR/EL because the gap widens as levels increase.

So an 8th level group magically equipped would have an even chance against a 12th level group unequipped?

 

[diaglo]

So an 8th level group magically equipped would have an even chance against a 12th level group unequipped?

i would say yes.... but only if they had 1 more stat bonus.

12th lvl guys at 25 pt buy to start and nonmagical equipment = 8th lvl guys with at least +6 stat bonus at start plus magical equipment.

otherwise. i'm going with 9th/10th lvl.

 

[The Human Target]

Hmmm I kinda feel like they would be even lower than 10th in power, but I don't have any proof to back it up.

The loss of scrolls and wands would be a huge blow to the power of any spellcasters I've ever seen played at that level.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

A very rough guess might be 1 level per average "+" of the things lost. So, if the party lost a bunch of items averaging +2, that might roughly equate to losing two power levels. You'd have to make allowances in the event that most of the losses were not straight "+" items, but it's a start...

Lanefan

My thoughts exactly. You would also have to balance the amount of permanent magic vs consumable. If 2/3rds or more of the items in the party are weapons, armor, and constant effects, it will be a bigger blow. If most of the items are wands, staves, scroll, potions, or once a day use items, it would mean fewer battles per day more than an overall power reduction.