D&D 4E Magics Items in 4E

[Moon-Lancer]

its an an easy solution. Balance the game assuming no one will ever get a magic item, and then +1 swords will kick butt.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Or maybe you don't find other magic swords? There's no need to find new magic swords if the one you have is good enough. That'd certainly eliminate the need to pepper every dungeon, cavern, and grotto with half-a-dozen magical weapons.

Interesting idea. Two problems:
1) How do we motivate the PCs to go down dungeons if there's no magic items and no need for treasure (as they cannot be purchased)?
2) What happens if the legacy weapon is sundered or eaten by a rust monster? Or lost?

 

[DandD]

How about one-shot magic items that are used for plot device reasons (makes you look totally cool for 1 day, gives you a +20 awesome bonus to... craft pots... but they really don't need to know this)... And treasure could still be used for mundane things... Like food... and ale... and fictional loose women...

Sundered legacy weapons can/should be repaired, rost monsters should get nerfed, and if it's lost, it's sad, but then again, destiny (aka the DM, if he values his life ) will somehow ensure that the hero will be reunited with the legacy weapon.

 

[Lab_Monkey]

Great thread.

Reducing the number of magic items that a character carries around is one of the things I like most about what we're hearing about 4e. I hate the magic Xmas tree effect and I hate that all characters must invest heavily on the same items to remain effective (i.e. able to defeat appropriate CR creatures) throughout their adventuring career.

As has been suggested by others, I hope the designers do the following:

1. Get rid of stat enhancing items. Have these stat bonuses be built into the level advancement of a character.
2. Get rid of items that give bonuses to natural armor, deflection, luck, etc. and other types of armor bonuses. Either fold these into character advancement (as above) or just have these be a part of armor/shield bonuses.
3. Get rid of resistance bonuses to saves. Fold this into level advancement as above.
4. Keep enhancement bonuses to weapons and armor. Any bonus that's been lost above and that hasn't been picked up by level based abilities can be added here.
5. Implement a legacy item system where items increase in power with your level (but without the severe penalties to saving throws and other key abilities).

I want a system where characters have 2-4 really interesting magic items (a primary weapon, armor, and one other interesting item) and a few disposable items like potions and scrolls which give minor bonuses. PCs have items with real character that they feel a real attachment to. I plan to implement such a system in my next campaign (whether it be 3e or 4e). In 3e, Vow of Poverty (from the Book of Exalted Deeds) provides a template for the bonuses to hand out for stats, natural armor, etc. I'll need to crunch some numbers to see where it's balanced if I do this (and I'm hoping the design team of 4e does this for me).

I think such a system can work. For instance, if every character is expected to have a +3 resistance bonus to saves at 10th level (I'm just making up an example) why shouldn't they just get that bonus to saves as part of their level progression? Why have a magic item to do it?

My biggest worry with this change is that players will miss the regular reward and sense of achievement that they get when they find a new item. Finding magic items is fun- if my players find only a fraction of the items that they do now, they feel like they're getting a fraction of the reward for playing even though mechanically they're 100% as effective as they should be.

 

[FireLance]

Interesting idea. Two problems:
1) How do we motivate the PCs to go down dungeons if there's no magic items and no need for treasure (as they cannot be purchased)?

Tell your players to create characters with other motivations: service to a lord or a deity, fame, plain old adventurousness, etc.

2) What happens if the legacy weapon is sundered or eaten by a rust monster? Or lost?

Find it, fix it, or otherwise replace it. And the advantage is, if you do it yourself, your descendants won't have to wander around the wildnerness until some half-elven lord decides to do it for them!

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Interesting idea. Two problems:
1) How do we motivate the PCs to go down dungeons if there's no magic items and no need for treasure (as they cannot be purchased)

"This artifact belongs in a museum!" -indy

really i think it should be the sense of wonder, excitement and adventure.

 

[Irda Ranger]

1) How do we motivate the PCs to go down dungeons if there's no magic items and no need for treasure (as they cannot be purchased)?

I'll let my DM post here more cogently than I could (if he shows up), but suffice it to say my Iron Heroes character is 8th level and recently sacrificed the only magic item he had (a cursed blade willingly taken up for good reason), and is back to using the same longsword he started with at 1st level. It had been hanging on the wall on his office for the last couple months, but it's still sharp.

We don't need no stinkin' magical items to motivate us to go into Undermountain.

2) What happens if the legacy weapon is sundered or eaten by a rust monster? Or lost?

Renewed shall be the blade that was broken, ...

 

[Kintara]

The newest podcast has a section where it's said that the Fighter in one of the playtests still doesn't have any magic items at all. Then it's said that they didn't plan to leave magic items out like that, but if they would have thought of it they would have probably intentionally done it. That implies to me that they like that they were able to balance everything just fine without having any magic items in the game.

So, it sounds to me like magic items are designed so that even if you hand out none, the game still runs perfectly well (for a designer intimately familiar with the rules...).

 

[Stalker0]

As has been hinting on already, the main way to stop magic item proliferation is to convert permanent items into expendable ones.

A +1 sword I will have until I break it or sell it for something better. But a potion of magic weapon will give a temporary bonus and then is consumed. That said, I think 4e should be a little nicer on temp boosts (perhaps some items that are word activated and can be done as free actions).

 

[pemerton]

I think this problem is nearly unsolvable.

<snip>

However I think would be too much a major change in concept, and probably most people wouldn't like the idea at all...

There are other game systems that solve the problem of loot accumulation, by giving the retention of material goods a cost (measured in whatever that system uses as its character build currency).

How one explains such a metagame device within the gameworld can vary: maybe the PCs have vows of poverty, or are spendthrifts (Conan, The Dying Earth) or are prone to being robbed (ibid).

So the problem is unsolvable only for D&D under the assumption that looting, and retaining that loot, is a high priority for D&D players.

Interesting idea. Two problems:
1) How do we motivate the PCs to go down dungeons if there's no magic items and no need for treasure (as they cannot be purchased)?

1st ed AD&D had a single reward mechanism - that is, treasure - which gave two benefits: it conferred XP, and it could be spent or (if magical) used. (I ignore monster XP here, because these tended to be swamped by the treasure XP).

3E is closer to Tunnels and Trolls - it has two paralled but independent reward mechanisms, namely, XP (which operate purely metagame to boost a PC) and gold (which is spent in-game to boost a PC).

If the rules are changed so that gold can no longer be used to boost PCs (whether because magic is abolished, or character build rules do not permit gold to be kept, or whatever) then there is still the motivation (for the players) of earning XPs by overcoming challenges. As for an in-game explanation of the PCs' motivations - well, that's when it becomes time for imagination and roleplaying!