Maintaining Grim and Gritty Flavour!

[Eclipsic]

Morally challenging

DEATH - You have to make it real in a grim and dark world. It has to be there, in the shadows, following everyone around waiting.

World view - Description of the cities, the people. You have to show that hope is beaten down. That life is cheap. That evil wins more than good or at least not defeated.

Hard Choices - Give players moraly changing choices.

I'd have to agree with the "morally challenging choices" part of this post. I recently had to make the decision between capturing and essentially selling into slavery a good elven ranger woman or remaining enslaved myself. My character has slowly made a shift from chaotic neutral to neutral and is tending toward lawful neutral over the past 4 years or so, so this was a hard one to roleplay: do I "backslide" to my chaotic days and just whack the girl over the head and deliver her, thus freeing myself, or do I search for a less morally reprehensible solution to the problem? Before I really had a chance to work my way through it, my DM kind of forced the issue by having her save my ass from some of the bandits she had become famous for eradicating. Even so, my character eventually swallowed down his distaste of the act and did the deed, delivering her to the man who wanted her for his "nympharium". I have to say that it was a choice that actually bothered me in real life, as well.

In a game I DM'ed once, a character was implored by a dwarven survivor of an attack by a tribe of lizard men to help the dwarf free his captured comrades. After a stealthy infiltration of the lizard man lair with minimum casualties, several of the dwarf's friends were freed (two had already been killed and eaten), but a panicked reaction to a lizard man ambush ended up burning alive the entire tribe; men, women, and young included. This upset this character greatly, but he reasoned that he saved the captured characters and that was the important thing. After being freed, however, the character learned that the dawrf's party had invaded the lizard man lair looking for loot, and the lizard men had just been defending their home. Truly a moral dilemma for this character, who counted a high-level druid amongst his NPC friends.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Yeah, mmadsen, it's too bad you live on the edge of the world out there! Usually after a game session, or if we play when the women aren't around, we sit back, light up some fine cigars, crack open some good Bass Ale, and play, or talk about *mechanics* and stuff, which the girls aren't interested in the slightest! It's funny though, we have these bull-sessions talking about the game, or politics, or history, and so on. It's great!

Certainly *in-game*--there is absolutely no mercy for political-correctness. I hate it in real life, so in the game it gets worked over hard, you know? Plus, with my knowledge of history, I just can't stand trying to cookie-cutter medieval people into embracing much of the things we hold to today, whether it is good, or whether it is utter nonsense. In either case, I just don't see ancient or medieval people seeing life, and the world, like we do today in the 21st century.

That said, there's plenty of racism, sexism, bigotry, genocide, slavery, drugs, prostitution, evil depraved cults, bizarre mystery religions, strange philosophies, crime, corruption, and oppression. Oh, yeah, and lots of Colosiums, arena's, and gladiators fighting to the death for the roar of the crowd, and to satiate the blood-lust of the screaming masses! Mix all of that in with monsters, horrible, wicked races, evil magic, and demons and everything else that is either trying to enslave the world, or eat it alive, and you have a world that is sure to wake the players up from the soft dreamy life of our present times!

I want my players to feel the terror. to feel the sweat trickle down their backs, and to feel their throats cracking like dry sandpaper under the blasting sun in the arena. I want them to see the evil knight who has oppressed them, and I want them to hate him so bad that they dream of his undoing when they are away from the game. When they tell me they have been thinking over the last time since we played, ways and means of crushing their hated enemy, and grinding him into the sand of defeat, then I know I'm at least on the right track!

When the thought of their girlfriend whom they love is carrried off and enslaved by the depraved evil wizard, and they have a tear shed as they vow to stop him, or avenge their love, no matter what the cost, or how far they have to travel, I know I have accomplished something special.

I know when they return again and again to a certain tavern because of the architecture, the friendly owner, as well as the ambiance of good tobacco, fine whiskey, friendly women, and the ever-present possibility of lore, friendship, or danger, then I have succeeded in bringing an element of the campaign world to such life they can tell me what the coffee tastes like, or what the trees smell like at certain times of the year, or describe to me the finely carved mantle over the tavern's fireplace, and relate to me interesting stories from their past that they have had in this favourite hangout of theirs, and they guard it, invest in it, and are always returning to it, something of the campaign world, at least in part, has come alive in a special way.

It is so many little things, that add up to making the campaign really special, and always entertaining!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Destil]

Re: Re: Maintaining Grim and Gritty Flavour!

To borrow from other media, one of the best ways to show how lethal or cruel the enemy is is via "red shirts" or "spear carriers". That's why henchmen and followers are so great. You can torture them, you can maim them, you can enslave them, you can graphically dismember them, etc.

It does ruin the mood though when a cleric can just heal the fellow who had his eyes burned out with a hot poker.

Or you can see the fellow the next day, with his eyes burnt out again. When the party cleric asks what happened or trys to heal him again he convulses with fear and patheticaly limps away, shaking, muttering about the inquisition and that he'd rather burn his own eyes out than be stoned for conspireing with demons.

 

[mmadsen]

In the "What flavour does your campaign have?" thread by my friend Mmadsen, he asks "How do you maintain grim and gritty flavour in your campaign?" Also implying, --"With all of the magic and normal assumptions that D&D generally has, intrinsic to the system."

For anyone looking for the What flavor does your campaign have? thread -- it may drop off the radar from time to time -- it's at: http://test.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13349

 

[sword-dancer]

Does this work?

Not tested this

A boy about 8-10 years who is an 700 years old vampire, who didn`t realize what he is.
Staked about 500+ years ago but the stake is rotten away.
Playing by night with the children of his victims and maybe is transforming the children also?

Military discipline

A person who lost its nerve is executed on the spot by the master sargeant or an officer.

 

[Corey II]

Great thread!

I’d add a couple of points:

War is hell, politics is the raging torment of fire whose fuel is men and stones.

It is never good vs. evil. It is good 1 vs. good 2 vs. good 3 and maybe once in a while they get around to remembering to fight evil, who is often busy with infighting as well. After several years working for political advocacy groups, I can relate way too many situations during which people who were ‘on my side’ stopped me from attacking the other team because it did not meet their current personal agenda.

Try having an allied NPC, particularly one they need, thwart the PC’s plans because they interfere with his agenda. Your players will need to wash the grit off before they leave your house. Or how about intelligence telling the PCs of an impending massacre in the Village of Way Excellent Peasants, but if the PCs act on the information the intelligence source, who is more vital to the good guys than the PCs, will be compromised.

On the subject of agendas, everybody has one. Always, always consider self-interest when deciding what actions NPC’s are willing to take. How many armies on the side of good in real life history stopped fighting for good when their leaders slowed down on the paychecks?

Plans usually require money, people will often do fairly disturbing, but legal, things to get it. I know a few folks who are ‘good’ but I feel really icky after being in a non-public fundraising meeting with them.

A suggestion along this line would be: The PC’s need quick cash, but the only way to get what they need quickly is to take it from the local Orphanage of the Cute Children run by do-gooder nuns of the highest integrity who would never willingly part with the orphan’s money.

In my mind a gritty world is one that dumps the PCs idealism out with the morning slops.

Corey

 

[rounser]

In my mind a gritty world is one that dumps the PCs idealism out with the morning slops.

I'd imagine that you'd have to be careful to moderate this approach with occasional sparks of hope and success, lest the players first cease to care about heroics, then cease to care about their characters, their survival, your world, and finally the game itself...and then where would you be?

 

[_z0mbe_]

Old Ones and Feudalism!

1. Use real feudalism in your settings. Peasants are dirty, scrub nosed majority, whose lives are filled with endless toil and suffering. They are the majority, most of them would be scared to touch a sword, cuz a Noble or a city guardsmen might kill them for stealing it. Nobility are pampered, spoiled and rich, most importantly notions like human rights, equality, etc. simply DO NOT EXIST yet.
2. Racism! Nothing makes your world scarier and darker than good old fashion human xenophobia!
Elves are aloof and strange, drink their blood and you might live as long as they DO! or go MAD!

In my campaign:
No race's default alignment is good/evil
Elves are Chaotic Neutral by default. Half mad from their affinity for magic (preferred class:sorceror) and with a feverish glow about their skin, and wild mis-matched colored eyes.
Dwarves are a Lawful Neutral Empire, Basically facist...the Kingdom of Blood and Iron, ruled by the strict Dwarven houses and their grim patriarch/warlord. Their greed and tenacity are the stuff of legend.
Halflings are Neutral a gypsy race, living amidst the races of man but calling no single place their home. In some regions their women are prized as slave-whores (they're small and stay young looking for a VERY long time, and its cheaper to feed them to boot) in others halflings are feared as ruthless bands of gypsy cut-throats, thieves and tricksters.
Gnomes! what the hell's a gnome? Dont like'em dont have'em, the Dwarves eradicated them in a Genocidal war against the blasphemy of gnomish machinery (although they still use thier archaic siege engines)
Orcs (chaotic neutral) prowl the world as men, you'll find them living in the slums of every major city, or living as wild and free warriors in thier homelands. They're swords are prized by warring members of nobility, their fearlessness and strength reknowned in battle.

Oh yes, and don't forget the death, despair and misery of the Great Old Ones. Throughout the world the Gods of Men (all humanoid races) are dying and fading as strange bands of apocalyptic cults rise up to challenege all known laws and powers. They seem to be everywhere, corrupting everything.

Trust No One!
IA! IA! Cthulhu Phtagn!

_z0mbe_

 

[Limper]

I think GnG comes from the heart....... its the only flavor I've ever been able to run successfuly. I suppose it come's from a libral arts education.... consisting of degrees in history with minors in poli-sci and religion.

Hell my style's so bleak I could make Smurfs d20 an unhappy affair.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

I think GnG comes from the heart....... its the only flavor I've ever been able to run successfuly. I suppose it come's from a libral arts education.... consisting of degrees in history with minors in poli-sci and religion.

Hell my style's so bleak I could make Smurfs d20 an unhappy affair.

Not to mention the Limper himself makes a classic GnG opponent for any party. And Glen Cook's Black Company a good source of inspiration.