Make me want to play NWN...

[Li Shenron]

I have the opportunity to install and play Neverwinter Nights but I am not convinced to take the chance, I tried it once for a couple of days and it didn't hit me... however I have heard many like it a lot and consider it the best RPG for PC around!

So try convince me it's a good idea and why, shouldn't be difficult I guess

I have played Baldur's Gate I & II and Temple of Elemental Evil and quite liked all 3 of them. I like having a long and twisted plot to follow, but I also like to have combats where I can exercise my strategy and my knowledge with the D&D rules . I am afraid that NWN may have a very limited plot and be too-much combat oriented, and also I am afraid that if it's real time combat there will be very little space for tactics... I don't want to play a game which keeps my nervous because I have to be fast with the keyboard! Especially because I like playing spellcasters, which I think they are going to be very difficult to play if you don't have time to think what to cast. Furthermore, how is the chance to survive with a wizard/sorcerer in NWN since it's a 1-character game?

Another thing that doesn't convince me 100% is the rules: I have read from the website that NWN pretends to use 3.5 official rules, but there's a lot of difference actually, many things are not implemented and there are extra combat options which don't exist in D&D. Are they actually a good thing or not?

Finally, I don't have internet connection at home, so I am going to entirely miss the online game. How good is the game going to be when playing solo? BG and ToEE were just fine - actually I have heard they sucked online - but maybe NWN has to be played online to be really fun?

 

[Morrus]

This is an odd question! You mention not wanting to "take the chance", but I don't see any risk factor involved. Your post seems to indicate that you have access to the game already, so there's no financial outlay (unless I'm misunderstanding you?)

I'd recommend installing it and giving it a try. If you don't like it, it's the work of a moment or two to uninstall it again.

Taking a look at your specific concerns:

am afraid that NWN may have a very limited plot and be too-much combat oriented, and also I am afraid that if it's real time combat there will be very little space for tactics...

Just like in BG, you can use the spacebar to pause the game, issue instructions and unpause again.

Furthermore, how is the chance to survive with a wizard/sorcerer in NWN since it's a 1-character game?

The single player campaign is designed to be completed with any character class. You can also get henchmen to help you out.

Another thing that doesn't convince me 100% is the rules: I have read from the website that NWN pretends to use 3.5 official rules, but there's a lot of difference actually, many things are not implemented and there are extra combat options which don't exist in D&D. Are they actually a good thing or not?

They work fine for a computer game. You couldn't fly or climb in BG, either, if I recall correctly? It's largely the same, with some minor differences to make it more suited to a PC environment. It's certainly no more or less limited than BG was.

Finally, I don't have internet connection at home, so I am going to entirely miss the online game. How good is the game going to be when playing solo? BG and ToEE were just fine - actually I have heard they sucked online - but maybe NWN has to be played online to be really fun?

In my opinion, online is where the fun is. Depends on your tastes - I know people who have enjoyed the single player campaign more than they enjoy playing online, and vice versa.

 

[Nifft]

The on-line game will eat your time and destroy your social life (such as it is, for us D&D geeks).

However, it's not going to destroy your bank account, since the servers don't charge money (yet).

-- N

 

[valn]

maybe NWN has to be played online to be really fun?

It doesn't have to. However, the on-line portion of the game explains NWN's longevity. How many games that old are still played as much and are still supported?

Even without an internet connection at home, you probably can find a friend able to download some of the amazing fan-created contents and burn them on a CD for you. There are many great modules that can be played solo, that can take dozens of hours to complete, extending the gameplay.

I can't talk about the official campaigns, since I've only played the intro of the first one, but I've played about a dozen modules solo and had a blast.

Like Morrus said, in solo play, you can pause at any and all the time. For a 1st-level spellcaster, I recommand choosing a familiar that can fight and taking the summon creatures spells (which last 24h in NWN), that way you won't be on the front-line all the time.

The rules are pretty much 3.0E, with a few modifications. Of course, anything related to the Z-axis (climb, jump, etc) and teleports are unavailable. There are exceptions in some fan-created modules, though.

Multiplaying (wether on-line or not) adds some excitement to the game. I didn't know what I was missing until I started playing on EN World's Persistent World (PW). For me, it has lost some of its strategic side (by not being to pause), but it has gained on the RPing and excitement side. A good trade-off, IMHO.

With the platinum edition out, you're getting a good price for it too. There are some compatibility issues with the older versions which will be fixed soon, but since you don't plan on playing on the Net, that shouldn't be a problem for you.

 

[Angcuru]

If you're looking for the awesome immersiveness of BG, then you won't find it in NWN. It's mainly a 'go online and beat the hell out of some monsters with your buddies' game.

As for the single player NWN campaigns, NWN was OK, not horrible, not great, but acceptable considering that Bioware had a very limited timeframe to put it together, since most of the production time was spent designing the toolset which IS the game's basis.

SoU is better than the NWN campaign, but not much better.

in these two there is virtually no party interaction, since it's just the PC and his/her NPC hench/sidekick, who will spout out some backstory every level or so, but that's the extent of it.

HotU was great. You can have 2 henches/buddies, there is actually party interaction in this one. The story is good, there's a lot to do, and it's visually impressive.

But overall, none of them can hold a candle to BG, story/satisfaction-wise. In BG, you had a bunch of friends who had real personality, instead of "I AM SO-AND-SO STEROTYPE CHARACTER!". Heck you could even romance/fall in love with some of them, . Especially good if you used the flirt pack. I remember this one time, my PC was walking along in the woods with his group, holding Aerie's hand and all that, and then we sit down to camp. Minsc asks Aerie to make some Preparation H for him, Viconia accuses her of being a wussy little panzy, Jahiera tells her to stop being so innocent, Keldorn is rambling on to her about how great Torm is, and it's all too much for the poor girl, and she's acting all sad and depressed. So my PC gives her a hug, and back come the smiles. It was all so seamless and well-timed, it was like watching a movie!


ummm...back to the point. Unless you like big online hack-fests, NWN isn't for you. I stopped playing for a while because it was nigh-impossible to find a group, and I didn't much like farming exp and loot Everquest-style. But when you get a group of people together in the tavern, those are good times.

 

[Li Shenron]

Ok, thank you all. I'm going to give it a second try in a few days, I'll just keep in mind not expect too much from the story I have read about some of the changes from D&D rules, they are not as bad as I remembered. When I tried it the first time, I played a wizard and couldn't survive two fights in a row, so this time I'm going to start easy with an elven archer-cleric, and who cares about fair play...

 

[Thanee]

Sorcerer is better than wizard in NWN, because you only need a limited spell selection, but cleric is - as usual - a very powerful character choice, as is the rogue or rogue/fighter, actually. I think melee has more to it than archery, however. A badass fighter or barbarian henchman (there is a half-orc barbarian IIRC) and a pixie familiar (for the sorcerer) should give you all abilities you need in a party (fighting, spellcasting, lockpicking/trap removal).

But as others have said, the game is meant for multiplayer.

So, how did you like it the second time?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

Thanks for suggestions.

A month has passed and I have played at least 3 weeks so far into the game now and actually it went very fast compared to for example Baldur's Gate or ToEE. My elven cleric is already 20th!

She started as an archer, but what you say is true... she slowly turned into melee because it was much more effective. In case you might be interested (probably not much...) here's more about her - although I don't remember exactly the numbers.

Race: I have chosen Elf but now I think Human would have been better. The choice was mostly because I wanted to use a bow instead of a crossbow and a good sword. I noticed only later that Martial WP gives prof with ALL weapons in NWN!

Class: 20 levels in Cleric. After 17th level I considered levels in Fighter (for the feats) or in Rogue (for sneak attack). The Xp penalty was not going to be a problem since I was already very high and advencement is very fast. At the end I just thought I didn't care very much and chose more spell slots.

Feats: I found the choice very limited. IIRC I have taken the following
Point Blank Shot as first (and last, but that wasn't the original idea) ranged feat.
Dodge just for defense.
Mobility because I wasn't very able to control my movements...
Extra Turning proved useful in many undead-based locations (actually I don't remember if I have the feat or an item which grants it).
Martial WP when I found out it worked with all MW.
Spell Penetration taken at some point.
I am not sure which was the missing feat, it's possible that I have taken a Skill Focus or Combat Casting in a moment of madness.

Skills: a total mess... I wasted many skill points because I didn't know how they worked in NWN, at the end I have mid-high (means 10-14) Concentration, Diplomacy and Lore, plus wasted points in Parry, Heal, Discipline, Spellcraft, Disable Trap and definitely something else.

Spells: I had almost forgotten how dread Harm was in 3.0 The only better/worse spell is Heal in 3.0 when it works the same on undead. Now, wait... there's Mass Heal for undead!
However the spells which I used most are the summons, with the incredibly long duration they are a must. Summon Monsters are good for a while but lesser ones become useless in time; the Dire Spider was my favourite for a long time, nowadays it's only the 2 strongest elementals.
The undead summoning were a mixed bag... Create Undead seemed better with the Wight than with the Spectre, and Create Greater Undead seemed FAR better with the Doom Knight than with the Lich, who depletes his spells very quickly (and is not smart, he kept casting fireball and fire wall against the fire giants!).

Domains: I have already forgotten what they exactly do. I have Healing and IIRC it automatically empowers healing spells; it also gave me Heal one level lower, and Cure Serious as 2nd level but strangely I prefer using it at 3rd because I use 2nd slots for Bull's Strength and Endurance. The other domain was Travel and I think I never used Freedom of Movement even once.

Equipment: I cannot count how much stuff I just took and sold ASAP. Basically I always played sword & board with only 10% of the battles from range. At the moment I have:
- the +2 longsword with acid damage
- the +4 mithral armor
- the +3 shield of holy
- a +3 longbow for battle
- a +5 heavy crossbow for trapped chests
- boots of haste
- belt of frost giants
- amulet of immunity vs poison, disease & negative energy
- cloak of fortification +3
- ring with extra cleric slots
- ring of 15 resistance vs all energies
- 6 magic bags for loot :\

And finally I have the Bard henchmen, which gets killed VERY often because pretends to first go into melee and second use the bow

So, any comment?

 

[Thanee]

Yes, Summon Monster is very good, especially with the Animal Domain.

And Harm is just ridiculously overpowered!

There are plenty good feats. Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, for example. TWF chain is also quite useful.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Greylock]

My ENW server char is waiting with some anticipation for Improved Critical. It's one of those feats useful to anyone who is not a mage, but it is very sweet for the rapier-wielding types.

[Just had to test the Glossary tag. Didn't work :\ .]