Make Race Matter

[Janaxstrus]

Not sure I want it to matter MORE, but I definitely want it to matter.

I'm quite happy with the idea of having the race and class combo matter most.
I think a theme/kit/prestige class, with racial restrictions, would be the way to go for how to differentiate a half-orc fighter from a dwarf fighter from a halfling fighter, rather than something built into the race itself.

 

[paladinm]

It just makes sense to me that different races would approach different classes differently. As mentioned, elven and dwarf fighters would not fight the same way. Hobbits would have a different view on "burgling." In Dragonlance, kender were thieves by nature/curiosity, not by training.

In BD&D, elves were not allowed to be clerics; but the "treekeepers" filled that role in elvish society, so they were allowed druid as well as arcane spells.

I agree that a lot of this should not be in the "core" of 5e; but it sure opens the door for some great splat books

 

[Estlor]

I'm conceptually in favor of race being a more significant part of the character, where the fact you wrote "Elf" on your sheet means a lot more than getting to re-roll an attack 1/encounter and shifting on difficult terrain. However, what seems to happen is ability scores are used as a proxy to differentiate the race. Elves get a +Dex, so they tend to be thieves and rangers, while Gnomes get a +Int so they're wizards and the like.

Speaking in 4e terms, imagine for a moment that, instead of having an array of class-specific utility powers to choose from, you instead picked from utilities based on power source (Martial, Arcane, Divine, Primal) or race. Now your elf fighter and your human fighter might share a utility or two because you're both Martial characters, but quite a few of the things you can do will be very different because one PC is an elf and the other is a human.

As an aside, in my houseruled 4e setup, I've moved to racial ability mods being +2 to a fixed score and +2 to any of the player's choice. The math under 4e is so dependent on you having a 16 or 18 in your primary score; that makes it easier to play any class with any race, rather than see a preponderance of elf and halfling rogues and hardly any dwarves.

 

[tlantl]

After a few years of 4e, I'm ready for race to matter less. I'd prefer to be able to limit the species in my campaign world to those that make sense, without cutting out large swathes of the ruleset from player use.

I plan on limiting races in my campaign too, I'd have to open another section of my world to accommodate races other than the ones I already use.


Limiting races isn't the same as making the ones you use more distinct.

If you use a fey style race then giving them the ability to fade into the terrain of a forest or other natural place a couple of times a day might be an idea.

Or you could give two different species of dwarf other specific minor bonuses to mining or smithing or bonuses to racial enemies, goblinoids for the surface dwellers for instance, or a special set of skills for underground survival in the depths of the earth.


I'm looking at this idea as a racial theme rather than being part of the actual race. I'm sure there will be plenty of modifiers for race when it's all said and done.

Maybe a player could gain a racial feat every so often that could be used to further differentiate one character from another.

A couple of paragraphs in a races description isn't likely to matter much when you are already tossing arts of your race desriptions out anyway. Hell we all know that allowing a single specimen of an exotic race into an area that has never seen one before could be pretty entertaining, lynch mobs out to kill them, the good and trusting sacrificing themselves to champion them, you name it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Part of the complex alchemy I mentioned above is that the more you make race matter, the more you are pigeonholing the race. This isn't inherently a bad thing -- a game with a lot of races and at least one "everything race" (humans) can avoid the pitfalls of that. But the mechanics I posted above, for instance, make it kind of silly to be a dwarf fighter who fights with a bastard sword -- you'd be throwing away your class bonus! How much you want to dictate that a race do something specific is pretty campaign-dependent: maybe dwarves who wield bastard swords is important to your campaign for some reason. In that case, you'd have to either ditch or change the racial mechanics, which isn't something we want to make everyone go through.

That said, here's some first-gloss ideas for other races with the Big Four classes (half-races get to pick from either a Human bonus feat, or the ability of their other race).

[sblock=elves]
Themes: Magic, Elegance, Forest

• Wood Warder (Fighter): +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls with swords and bows.
• Acrobatic Rogue (Thief): +1 bonus to Acrobatics checks.
• Faerie Magician (Wizard): Cast Enchantment spells as if you're one level higher.
• Corellon's Magic (Cleric): Gain a free magic spell.

[/sblock]

[sblock=halflings]
Themes: Villages, Friendship, Rest

• Village Sherrif (Fighter): +1 bonus to Intimidate checks.
• Unseen Burglar (Thief): +1 bonus to Stealth checks.
• Shire Warden (Wizard): Cast Abjuration spells as if you're one level higher.
• Best Cook In Town (Cleric): After having a full rest, your party gains a +1 to attacks and defenses. These bonuses last until the end of the first encounter.

[/sblock]

[sblock=gnomes]
Themes: Illusion, Trickery, Luck

• Tricky Warrior (Fighter): Once per encounter, if you are missed by an attack, you gain advantage against the creature that missed you.
• The Invisible (Thief): Gain the Minor Invisibility spell for free.
• Illusionist (Wizard): Cast Illusion spells as if you're one level higher.
• Lucky Gem (Cleric): You create a lucky gem that, once per encounter, gives an ally a +1 bonus to AC as an immediate interrupt.

[/sblock]

[sblock=orcs]
Themes: Vengeance, Brutality, Rage

• Bloodied But Unbroken (Fighter): +2 bonus to damage while bloodied.
• Merciless (Thief): +1 bonus to Intimidate checks.
• Secrets of Orcus (Wizard): Cast Necromancy spells as if you're one level higher.
• One-Eyed (Cleric): When an ally becomes bloodied, you can give them a +1 bonus to attack rolls, once per encounter.

[/sblock]

...or somesuch.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I'm all for making race choice matter a LOT more than it has in 3E or 4E, but I don't think racial class variants is a workable solution at all. If you want a elven fighter to be very different from a dwarven fighter, wouldn't the best solution be to make the "fighter" side the same, and put more effects into the "elf" or "dwarf" side to establish the difference? Creating different elf fighter and dwarf fighter classes would be too inefficient. It would be better to accomplish the same goal by elaborating upon the game's central race mechanics.

 

[paladinm]

@TB - How would you propose to do that?

I kinda like having dwarf fighters be different than elves, hobbit thieves be different than human ones, and elf mages having different spell lists.

And.. I would make sorcerer the default "magic user" class for elves. Aren't elves supposed to be inherently magical? I'd have thought that would be an instant fit for elves.. but 3.x kinda dropped the ball

 

[steeldragons]

...or somesuch.

"Or somesuch" nothing! I would TOTALLY want and use those in my next campaign. Maybe a bit of tweaking so that nothing is more than +1, but still...Great options!

 

[steeldragons]

I'm all for making race choice matter a LOT more than it has in 3E or 4E, but I don't think racial class variants is a workable solution at all. If you want a elven fighter to be very different from a dwarven fighter, wouldn't the best solution be to make the "fighter" side the same, and put more effects into the "elf" or "dwarf" side to establish the difference?

Isn't that what he's saying? Maybe I'm just reading this wrong.

Creating different elf fighter and dwarf fighter classes would be too inefficient. It would be better to accomplish the same goal by elaborating upon the game's central race mechanics.

Right...wait, "inefficient" how? You mean, like I said, devoting page count and such to racial variants. Ok, yeah. We agree on that.

I think, what paladinm is proposing (and not meaning to speak for you, paladinm) would be making the Race column of the proposed and stated intent of 5e to incorporate "Class/Race/Theme" character columns as integral to Character Creation veryimportant to what kind of fighter or thief or mage or cleric you elf/dwarf/halfling/...tiefling or dragonborn (?) is.

Being able to say "I'm a Dwarf/Fighter/Goblin Slayer" or an "Elf/Wizard/Woodland Enchanter" or a "Halfling/Thief (or Rogue)/Sneaky Bugger...er. I mean, Burglar" or a "Gnome/Rogue/Fey Illusionist" would, I personally think, make for a great game and provide flavor without having to incorporate a whole bunch of pages/fluff.

@KamakizeMidget's racial "class/themes" available to any of those races with the same base class, would work very well without requiring a ton of space or time in the books. Maybe a little sidebar under the class listings for (Additionally/OPTIONALLY race x-this, race y-that).

I think it could be done...and now that I'm thinking about it hope it is done. But whether or not it is...I definitely think these are realistic options i will add to my next campaign.

 

[Minigiant]

[MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION]

I like your ideas but little +1 bonuses do nothing in the grand scheme of things for skill checks. +5% bonus to something not guaranteed to happen in a session does not make the race matter.

Personally I'd go more drastic. Attack bonus could stay at +1 but any situation bonus should be at least +3 (15%) or the bonus willing be negligible. "Encounter" powers should be rechargable. If race is to matter, certain stereotypes should be enforced. Racial choice should heavily encourage certain choices and allow options only for the other aspects.