Making a good Crossbowman?

[Carnifex]

Well, one of the characters in the d20 Warhammer game I've started up is a Tilean mercenary, using the Unfettered class as a base since he wants a kinda light fighter. Anyway, thing is, Tilean's are renowned for their skills with crossbows - but as is, in the D&D rules, there isn't really any reason to go heavy specialisation into xbows - bows are much better simply because they don't have to deal with the reload problem. Rapid Reload deals with this in part, but not entirely, since you only get 1 free action per round...

...so how does one go about making a solid crossbow-centric character? (or possibly handgunner). What do you do to create one of the same killing power as an archer build?

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Speak to your GM: My suggestion would be to buy a martial weapon 'crossbow' that uses the exact stats/rules of a composite (mighty?) longbow... and just call it a 'Tilean Crossbow'. It's not perfect, but it'll provide you with a crossbow wielding character very similar in performance to a bowman, just a mild suspension of disbelief required As well as a different combat/character description.

I'm a fan of this kind of solution to weapon issues. IMO, a drussus, gladius, huge dagger or meat cleaver are all 'short swords'. It's just what the character calls it. Easier than new rules.

 

[tetsujin28]

Remember the crossbow has twice the crit range of a bow. Doesn't seem like much, but it was really deadly in our WHFRP 3e game. Make sure to get a x-bow of speed when you have the chance, too. You could also get a repeating x-bow, for the coolness factor.

 

[Carnifex]

Speak to your GM: My suggestion would be to buy a martial weapon 'crossbow' that uses the exact stats/rules of a composite (mighty?) longbow... and just call it a 'Tilean Crossbow'. It's not perfect, but it'll provide you with a crossbow wielding character very similar in performance to a bowman, just a mild suspension of disbelief required As well as a different combat/character description.

I'm a fan of this kind of solution to weapon issues. IMO, a drussus, gladius, huge dagger or meat cleaver are all 'short swords'. It's just what the character calls it. Easier than new rules.

I *am* the DM Basically I want to make sure that the character doesn't end up underpowered compared to the other two, or generally just too weak to survive (it's gonna be tough).

One thing that just came to mind is, since unfettered have proficiency with all 'agile exotic' weapons, to classify the repeater xbow as agile exotic.

Still, it seems to be that crossbowmen have to go extra lengths to get the same kind of killing power that an archer gets. Which seems somewhat strange.

 

[Carnifex]

Remember the crossbow has twice the crit range of a bow. Doesn't seem like much, but it was really deadly in our WHFRP 3e game. Make sure to get a x-bow of speed when you have the chance, too. You could also get a repeating x-bow, for the coolness factor.

You've played in a WHFRP 3e game before? In that case, tetsujin, you absolutely have to tell me everything the DM did in order to add that WFRP flavour Since we've only had one game so far, there's still plenty of time for me to modify house rules (the ex-Amethyst college mage student is resigned to the fact that the way he uses magic may very well change quite a few times before I settle on a good way to do it ).

 

[Carnifex]

Remember the crossbow has twice the crit range of a bow. Doesn't seem like much, but it was really deadly in our WHFRP 3e game. Make sure to get a x-bow of speed when you have the chance, too. You could also get a repeating x-bow, for the coolness factor.

And to actually look at the suggestions you gave

Yeah, the xbow does have a better crit range, but I'm worried that this might be too counteracted at higher levels by the lower fire rate. It's not gonna be low magic, but it will be lower-than-normal-D&D in terms of magical loot, so an xbow of speed might take quite a while for the player to acquire - the repeating xbow seems like it might be the way to go.

 

[tetsujin28]

I had a slow fighter who hid behind a tower shield, fire the heavy crossbow at close range, then would Quick Draw a long spear ("Oops! Looks like you've entered an AoO square! And you're charging? Oh, that's bad..."), then drop that the next round (our next attack, when he hit 6th level), Quick Drawing his greatsword. Bosh!

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I *am* the DM Basically I want to make sure that the character doesn't end up underpowered compared to the other two, or generally just too weak to survive (it's gonna be tough).

One thing that just came to mind is, since unfettered have proficiency with all 'agile exotic' weapons, to classify the repeater xbow as agile exotic.

Still, it seems to be that crossbowmen have to go extra lengths to get the same kind of killing power that an archer gets. Which seems somewhat strange.

Sorry. Didn't quite catch the 'one of my characters' bit correctly. Must learn to read!

I think the nature of a DnD crossbow is large part of the problem. Basicaly, imo, it's been 'aimed' at <10 strength and/or non fighter characters - to give them a good weapon to get through their lower levels. In terms of stats they really don't make nearly as 'good' a weapon as a longbow - increased attack speed and ability to apply your strength is the real kicker...

I think the repeating crossbow as an 'agile exotic' is quite a reasonable solution. Perhaps it's be possible to include a mighty version. Basically strung more taut and needs greater strength to crank/hand pull. That would certainly get round the damage problems?

EDIT: The crossbow crit range is bigger, but a long/short bow does a *3 crit. Think 19-20*2 = 20*3 as far as the weapon balancing went?

 

[tetsujin28]

Or you could always do what one of our old RuneQuest PCs did: pintel-mount a ballista onto a wagon, with a big mantlet in front. That'll make 'em think.

 

[Carnifex]

Sorry. Didn't quite catch the 'one of my characters' bit correctly. Must learn to read!

I think the nature of a DnD crossbow is large part of the problem. Basicaly, imo, it's been 'aimed' at <10 strength and/or non fighter characters - to give them a good weapon to get through their lower levels. In terms of stats they really don't make nearly as 'good' a weapon as a longbow - increased attack speed and ability to apply your strength is the real kicker...

I think the repeating crossbow as an 'agile exotic' is quite a reasonable solution. Perhaps it's be possible to include a mighty version. Basically strung more taut and needs greater strength to crank/hand pull. That would certainly get round the damage problems?

Hmm. *thinks* - mighty crossbow might not be much use, 'cos I remember the character has high Dex, Int and Cha, but low Con, moderate Wis - and probably just moderate Str. But if he does have any sorta strength bonus (might have Str 12) it might be worth coming up with a 'mighty' xbow variant - that's certainly a good suggestion.