D&D 4E making a witch in 4e

[Olfactatron]

Who are you who is so wise in the ways of science?

A duck!

 

[Mighty Veil]

Technically you could use any class. Just make the character a girl who whines and is bossy. Oh wait, you said witch...

Just use warlock.

 

[Mighty Veil]

What is 'pagan' in the context of D&D?

Worshiping Greyhawk deities?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

When I first got into 3.5, I wanted to make a witch with abilities like the ones Granny Weatherwax has - especially her ability to "borrow" the minds of animals (some sort of nature-oriented magic jar?). That sort of witch would be fun to play. It would probably be much easier to do with the 4e rules, as her abilities would all just be class powers. It might work just to do some crazy multiclassing thing, too.

Yes, Borrowing... a power that's definitely missing (but probably under-powered for D&D, considering what Granny can "borrow" - only animals, and occassionaly a swarm)

Generally, I think the Warlock is a good fit for my mental image of a Witch. If I remember correctly, eventually, the Warlock can have two pacts. So, most Witches probably begin with a Fey pact, but the evil ones will eventually go for a pact with the Devil, the wise ones for a pact with the Stars. Witches with a Devil pact will be the reason why zealous fanatics might want to hunt down all Witches and want to see them burn. The Star pact ones are usually reacting by retreating to remote areas, where only people requiring their wisdom will search for them...

 

[Li Shenron]

"Witch" I define loosely as the priest/priestess of a pagan religion gifted with magic.

Druid. (If you forsake the FR idea about druids always having a patron deity)

OTOH, "Warlock" is originally the word used for "male witch" (since "witch" originally identifies a female only).

 

[Khaalis]

I would say that creating a "witch" for 4E would first require defining what the class definition of witch is for your campaign. This is a class topic that has been attempted many times in the history of D&D and none of them have ever been widely accepted as the definitive "witch" class.

Personally I would (and likely will) design a unique Witch class that fills the niche for my campaign world, being based on what we classically define as a pagan witch - something along the lines of a magical adept with a focus on things natural, divinatory, and enchanting.

I would start by classify a 4E witch as either an Arcane or Primal Controller once we see what the definition of the "primal" source is. If primal is all about elementalism, it doesn't fit the witch. In most respects, I would see the witch as a variant of the Wizard, focusing more on guile, divinatory powers, curses, some healing etc. than the flash-bang nature of the wizard.

From there I would extrapolate from the existing tools (i.e. core abilities) what to give the witch. As mentioned, this would involve taking a mix and match approach from other classes as the basis for the skeleton of their powers, such as Eyebite from the warlock, and other such "curses" as the witch's primary offensive ability. These could then be expanded into controller style powers as well. They would also likely gain some leader style abilities in the form of group buffs based on divinatory powers such as precognition, as well as some minor healing powers. They would not get big flash-band evocation type powers, nor would they be a melee oriented class.

Just my first thoughts on the idea.

On another note - the Monte version... I liked the concepts involved in the class, but not that it was a 'witch'. If anything that class seems to me to be more akin to what a Primal version of the swordmage would be like, and in fact might be a great basis for such a class in 4E.

 

[BASHMAN]

A witch would be a warlock who makes a pact w/ Demons / Devils as opposed to a Warlock who made a pact w/ "the Stars" (Astrologist?), or "the Fey" (Changeling?).

 

[Khaalis]

A witch would be a warlock who makes a pact w/ Demons / Devils as opposed to a Warlock who made a pact w/ "the Stars" (Astrologist?), or "the Fey" (Changeling?).

Where do you draw this from? I would see it as directly opposite. Witches would be star related (astrology) while Warlocks are typically classified as the "evil" flip-side and the demon worshipers. Just curious.

This is the prime example of how the terms are different to everyone.

 

[Wepwawet]

This is the prime example of how the terms are different to everyone.

Exactly.
You can choose whatever class you want and call your character a Witch. Problably Warlock is the most adequate, but as has been said, Wizards, Clerics or Druids would also do (whatever your concept of a witch is).

Do you think that maybe WotC created the 4E Warlock class to fill the role of a Witch? And they named it so because everyone has his own strong ideas of what a witch is, while warlock is more vague.

 

[ruemere]

Oh man I hated the montewitch. I liked the design of the class well enough, but nothing says witch to me like, um, being able to create a flaming sword at the drop of a hat.

Monte's Witch is fun to play. And, due to flexibility of class design, it's easy to create a custom template with powers tailored to your liking.

I'd say the witch got divvied up between the wizard, the druid, and the warlock -- which should surprise no one. Multiclassing her back together or, equivalently, cobbling together a version of the witch at the intersection of those abilities, would be my suggestion.

Assume you're not houseruling, but are writing a witch class. What would its power source be? What would its role be?

I could see a nature leader or a nature striker. Leader when they heal, striker via status effects (curses, sensory illusions, charms). So I'd say a multiclass of varying proportion of cleric and warlock would be a pretty good approximation.

I think we should start class design with the concept we are trying to implement. For example, let's look at the three famous witches of literature and their famous traits:

Baba Yaga
- definitely Fey creature,
- definitely uses powerful magic items (iron mortar, pestle, broom, log cabin on chicken legs, iron teeth),
- can order other mythic creatures around,
- superhuman strength and vitality,
- taste for human flesh,
- invisible servants,
- visible servants (mortals) bound by pacts to her service,
- provides guidance and help,
- treats better polite people.

Terry Pratchett's Three Witches
- definitely mortals,
- able to influence reality through acts of will (superhuman strength and vitality, flying on brooms, witchcraft), but always reluctant to do so (see tempted... entry below),
- charismatic and intelligent and wise,
- tempted to do evil (to indulge their own whims),
- Borrowing (riding minds of lesser creatures),
- able to engage in contest of wills with opponents,
- able to mind control,
- their strength peaks when they work in trios,
- have strong ties to local community,
- local folk lore experts.

Macbeth's Three Witches
- sinister seers, who like to lead people astray,
- can see evil parts of human nature and know how to bring them to the surface,
- able to use weather to hide,
- know how to divine future events,
- work in threes.

Anyone else with Witch concepts they want to implement?

Regards,
Ruemere

PS. EDIT: spelling errors.