Making all ability scores more important

[babinro]

I've always wanted ability scores to mean more for any given class. In my experience with 3.X, Charisma has always been the dumpstat for the vast majority of characters play by myself, and my fellow D&D players. It seems 4.0 has not addressed this, as is the case with people saying that Intelligence feels like a dump stat (which I tend to agree with given what I've seen thus far).


Str: Same as it was before, carrying capacity, melee/thrown weapon attack power and damage.

Dex: Ranged attack power and damage for light weapons. AC for lighter armor. No longer a factor in initiate.

Con: Hit points gained per level and healing surges

Int: Initiative bonus. While you may not be the quickest to jump into combat, you're better able to access the situation and act more effectively than others around you. This is represented via a higher initiative order as it provides you with a tactical edge.
Languages Known: 8 means you know common but cannot read or write. 10 means you can read and write common. Each modifier upwards adds a language.

Wis: Your modifier determines your passive perception intuition. Rather than characters taking a 10...they will take a 10+wis modifier for their passive checks. This means that a wisdom of 8 means people would be taking a '9' on rolls.

Cha: Could represent your haggling ability in the market place. To throw a number out there, every ability point you gain increases profits from sold items by an additional 5%. This could also apply to the purchase price of items. IE: Cha 14 means you'd gain 10% more on sold goods than the merchant would offer your comrades.


Thoughts? Suggestions on how to better approach this?

 

[Cheesepie]

Why not just have Dex or Int affect initiative just like Dex or Int affects AC?

 

[Mort_Q]

Why not just have Dex or Int affect initiative just like Dex or Int affects AC?

The OP's goal is to not have a dump stat.

 

[Torchlyte]

Because that would make Int useless for a Dex-based character.

Ninja'd.

 

[Piratecat]

I'll scoot this over to house rules.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

You need dumpstats. Not very stats can be as important to every class nor is it even a desirable result.

You have a primary stat and usually about two other useful one. You need to have three other lower scores and they need to go somewhere.

Even if you give more powers to charisma, for example, a fighter will still dump it because he can't take away points from strenght or constitution. As a result, you won't increase the numbers of charismatic fighters, you'll only increase the penalty they already suffer in terms of low social skills rolls.

Dumpstats isn't a result of the stats, it's a result of the scarcity of ressources. Only 22 points on a point buy system.

You really are desperate to see fighters with high INT or CHA? Have them roll 7D6 and keep three highest. You'll get high Int score. You'll get high score everywhere.

 

[keterys]

Your Cha solution just means _someone_ in the party needs it, not that everyone should have.

How about 'After an extended rest, you have 1 + Cha action points.'

 

[babinro]

Yeah the Charisma one needs work, I really don't want the party to just have a 'sell/buy monkey' which is what this houserule would ultimately lead to. I like the action point idea, but it comes off as being over powered to anyone is inherently charisma based, they'd be getting +5 action points which is abusive.

Mal Malenkirk: While I agree there will still be dumpstats regardless (since nothing will force a fighter to go away from what is ultimately the most important for them), I just prefer every ability score to mean something outside of someones class. You're probably right that it would just further their already glaring weaknesses though.

As it stands I'll be running my 4E campaign without houserules...as I don't believe in using them until I've given the suggested ruleset a solid run through. However, down the road maybe something like this will be better refined for use.

 

[Szatany]

You need dumpstats. Not very stats can be as important to every class nor is it even a desirable result.

You have a primary stat and usually about two other useful one. You need to have three other lower scores and they need to go somewhere.

Even if you give more powers to charisma, for example, a fighter will still dump it because he can't take away points from strenght or constitution. As a result, you won't increase the numbers of charismatic fighters, you'll only increase the penalty they already suffer in terms of low social skills rolls.

Dumpstats isn't a result of the stats, it's a result of the scarcity of ressources. Only 22 points on a point buy system.

You really are desperate to see fighters with high INT or CHA? Have them roll 7D6 and keep three highest. You'll get high Int score. You'll get high score everywhere.

Agreed with everything. Having said that, I would be nice if, for example, a character with high Dex was somehow rewarded for having high Int as well. I can thing of 2 ways for doing that.

Option nr 1. Each ability score affectes defenses. It might be a little unbalancing or not, haven't really thought of that, but the idea is this:
- For AC and Reflex, use Dex modifier + half Int modifier
- For Fortitude, use Con modifier + half Str modifier
- For Will, use Wis modifier + half Cha modifier

Option nr 2. Give each ability a bonus that is effective outside combat, thus lowering possible chance of over or underpowerness. Strength already has this - carrying capacity. Int could govern languages as someone pointed out. Rest of them would need work.

 

[keterys]

Well, you could avoid a true dump by just saying 'An 8 in a stat gives -1 to the defense for that stat'

And yeah, the action point suggestion gives a lot of action points to people with high charisma... but not like they can use more than 1 per encounter anyways. It just means they'll definitely use 1 every encounter