Making Area Attacks More realistic

[SageofMusic]

It seems to me as if Area attacks are really unrealistic (granted the whole game is unrealistic, but bear with me). For me, if you threw a fireball right at a guy, even if the attack missed his reflex, he would still have to move out of the way. A fireball doesn't care what the reflex of the person is, it's going to fill the area of the attack with fire. That's why I propose that instead of the attack simply missing, all area attacks that attack reflex (in a manner such as fireball) would automatically force anyone within the blast to shift outside as a free action, even if it missed. Does this sound like a fair proposition to you?

 

[Starfox]

Sounds like a good way to grant fighters extra attacks and enemies extra movement. White it is in some ways realistic, it creates complexities and secondary effects you might not want.

 

[fuzzlewump]

@SageofMusic

A single attack is not so much filling squares with smoldering flame you have to move out of, it's a single scorching blast of fire erupting from the origin square. "Zones" were created to model what I think may be what you are envisioning where the magic fills the area for a certain amount of time and must be moved out of to avoid damage, or whatever the mechanic on the power is.

If you think a spell like fireball is very short-lived like I do or if you're just with me so far, then it's just a matter of putting something in between you and the origin square. A shield, a large pack, a blanket, bedroll, something of the sort. That's assuming fighting in a clear plain. If there is cover sitting around in the environment, then that of course would be preferable; rubble, low-walls, boulders, shrubs, trees, that kind of thing.

So that's why I think there actually isn't a huge problem with verisimilitude with this particular issue. (Just as a side note, the combat rules see area attacks as a single burst, given the "origin square" and how the cover rules work.)

As for your house-rule, besides what Starfox mentioned, it would cause a problem for attacks that also cause Zones. They would get a free action to shift out of a zone that would have, without this rule, been able to damage them on the start of their turns or whatever the case may be.

 

[FireLance]

Some area attacks have an effect on a miss, e.g. half damage. For such attacks, the "attack roll" is thus functionally equivalent to the saving throw for half damage which could be found in previous editions of the game.

Other area attacks do not have an effect on a miss, and for such attacks, the DM and the player may agree to flavor them so that no damage on a miss is plausible. For example, instead of the attack filling the area with energy, it could create a waist-high pulse of energy which "missed" targets could have ducked under or jumped over.

 

[eriktheguy]

That's a very interesting way to add flavor.

There are many ways that a fireball could hurt some targets more than others. I imagine targets who get hit as 'catching the worst of it', while those that were missed managed to duck behind obstacles, lay flat against the ground, reduced the area of flesh exposed, or as you suggested, moved away.

Moving targets who get missed by reflex attacks is very realistic and cool, and I have been doing it for awhile. I suggest doing it in your campaigns for flavor. I would encourage you to use the rule you suggested, but to remove the "ALL" clause from it!

With many area attacks, you can describe them as "shrapnel" type explosions, meaning that when a player misses with their 'blazing starfall' or 'scorching burst', the projectiles produced by the attack quite literally missed some targets.
When an attack does half damage on a miss, I like to think of it as filling the entire area like a fireball. With these "more or less" attacks, people in better positions tend to take less damage, and those in worse positions tend to take more. It's all about location, location, location!

That said, I tend to move monsters in the area of a "more or less spell" more often. I also tend to move minions more often. Sometimes I do something else that I think seems to make sense, such as moving a monster in a "shrapnel" type area to another square inside the area (as they dance to avoid projectiles) or to move a monster into the prone position (as they duck behind a wall or an ally).

 

[Nytmare]

This can also be lumped in with the abstraction. I'd argue that hit or miss, high damage or low, they're the mechanics beyond the "reality" of what was happening in the game world, and the mechanics are only guidelines for that reality, not concrete descriptions of it.

Fireballing someone and missing doesn't have to mean that they ducked below the blast, or hid behind a table, or managed to somehow escape unscathed and unsinged. All it means is that their hit point total does not decrease.

"My friends and I were caught in a magical blast of fire. It hurt. My equipment is singed and most of my mundane gear is practically ruined. The reek of burning hair fills my nostrils, and the skin on my face feels hot and stretched too tight across my skull." is a much better rationalization in my eyes of getting fireballed and missed than trying to find a way to justify being outside the blast after the fact.

 

[eriktheguy]

This can also be lumped in with the abstraction. I'd argue that hit or miss, high damage or low, they're the mechanics beyond the "reality" of what was happening in the game world, and the mechanics are only guidelines for that reality, not concrete descriptions of it.

Fireballing someone and missing doesn't have to mean that they ducked below the blast, or hid behind a table, or managed to somehow escape unscathed and unsinged. All it means is that their hit point total does not decrease.

"My friends and I were caught in a magical blast of fire. It hurt. My equipment is singed and most of my mundane gear is practically ruined. The reek of burning hair fills my nostrils, and the skin on my face feels hot and stretched too tight across my skull." is a much better rationalization in my eyes of getting fireballed and missed than trying to find a way to justify being outside the blast after the fact.

Definitely!

 

[Ace32]

Fireballing someone and missing doesn't have to mean that they ducked below the blast, or hid behind a table, or managed to somehow escape unscathed and unsinged. All it means is that their hit point total does not decrease.

This is exactly the right point to make. A failed reflex save means the character was caught by the area attack without reacting in time and suffered for it.

Making your save means you were able to duck your head, cover your face, or what have you to soak up the attack and keep going without any detriment to your combat ability.

We are talking about heroes here.

 

[SageofMusic]

That's some very good arguments. Nytmare's explanation was I think the best, but erik the guy had some compelling reasons as well. Perhaps there could be a compromise between the two. Maybe by blocking the blast with your shield, or ducking away from the worst of it is an explanation as to why you only got singed as opposed to being burnt to a cinder. I'll definitely consider all of the above in my campaign!