Making combat deadlier.

[Sekhmet]

What are some ways to make combat a more deadly affair?

I'm trying to bring my next campaign into the modern world, so you can bet there will be firearms and explosives of some kind. How do I really distinguish how much more deadly these weapons are than in previous editions, where pistols and grenades are quantified down into 1d8 (which is still just a drop in a pond, at later levels)?

I'd appreciate some ideas. Anything, no matter how ill-thought-out, will be considered.

 

[Ahnehnois]

CoC d20 simply lowers the massive damage threshold (to 10 or 15 I think). If you have to make a lot of fort saves to resist dying, eventually you'll fail. Unearthed Arcana has a number of ideas for playing with the threshold as well.

Personally, I use some form of vp/wp for all my d20 games, the basics of which are on the SRD.

One other rule I've used in modern games is to simply take attack roll, subtract AC, and add that result to damage (I cap it at the weapon's max crit damage). That way you can use the existing gun stats but radically increase how damaging they are, as well as making attack rolls and modifiers to them more relevant.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What are some ways to make combat a more deadly affair?

I'm trying to bring my next campaign into the modern world, so you can bet there will be firearms and explosives of some kind. How do I really distinguish how much more deadly these weapons are than in previous editions, where pistols and grenades are quantified down into 1d8 (which is still just a drop in a pond, at later levels)?

I'd appreciate some ideas. Anything, no matter how ill-thought-out, will be considered.

You have to decide for yourself what is balanced, and how balanced do you want the game to be?

Are you okay with new PCs being made ... a lot? Because if the issue is PCs are too aggressive, there's better ways of fixing things.

D20 Modern has rules for guns, grenades and explosives. Guns do 2dX damage (2d4 for a Derringer up to 2d12 for an anti-materiel rifle), grenades usually do 4d6 damage (save for half), and dynamite does however many dice you want, and possibly more with a skill check! A rocket launcher or a tank's main gun do 20d6 damage.

For guns I think a 4e-style mod would work better. Maybe they don't need such high base damage (stat 'em like a crossbow?) but allow Dex to apply to damage and not just to hit. Then you need to stage encounters to make guns deadly. If the enemy are starting in concealment (darkness, in thick woods) or maybe have a lot of elevation and shoot from far way, by the time PCs get to them they'll be half dead. Especially if there's difficult terrain or worse!

Unfortunately I've never seen WotC come up with good rules for smoke grenades or covering fire. Come up with such rules. Use them. Anyone rushing machine guns is going to be moving slowly and taking significant penalties to hit or even damage due to fear.

D&D 3.x (and d20 Modern) have rules for traps, as in how much damage should a Fireball trap deal. (It's 2d6 damage per point of CR.) So a bomb hidden under the floor is a trap, and if the PCs are 10th-level, having it deal 20d6 damage is perfectly reasonable. (And note, that's one CR 10 bomb, not the entire encounter!)

 

[timASW]

I've done it 3 ways.

1. Fewer HP. You start with HP=CON and get a fixed 1-4 HP per level based on class, no bonus from CON. Works pretty well for a while.

2. Use exploding dice. Every max damage roll gets to be re-rolled and added together for as long as max's keep up. Really keeps players on their toes in combat.

3. Same way as Ahnehnois 2nd method. Every point by which you exceed their AC does 1 extra damage. (adjust for deadliness)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

IMHO, the question isn't 'how to play modern D20 cause guns should be deadly'... its a question of whether you want a gritty feel to the game or a heroic fantasy.

DnD combat is so abstracted that the 'guns should be deadly' doesn't really apply in a game where a mage can toss off a fireball that melts metal.

Gritty feel can be done with WP/VP, or Ken Hoods 'Grim and Gritty - revised' system {I recommend the latter for real nasty worlds}. But you have to balance the gritty/realism of the game with the entertainment factor. Because honestly real life combat isn't 'fun' or cinematic. It usually boils down to whoever hits first.
This can lead to weird deals like Shadowrun rules where boosted reflexes was king. Mostly realistic, but not too much fun to play through. I would rather a rule set that fosters a john woo-film feel or a frantic 'dash for cover'.

And yes, I prefer CP2020

 

[Rhenny]

Here is an idea that just popped into my head. I've never tried it, but for some reason right now it is very interesting to me. It really would change D&D to a different type of game, but that might be what some groups want.

Use CON Score plus level as maximum hit points. For every attack that hits, give creatures or PCs a chance to parry or dodge the blow (rolling over the attack score using either their own basic attack modifiers with a d20 for parry, or their dexterity modifier with a d20 for dodge). This way, each hit has the potential to really do damage. For most PCs, getting hit and failing to parry or dodge 2 or 3 times will take them out of action.

You might need to apply a -1 or -2 penalty to each defense roll vs. multiple attacks to make it more difficult to defend against more than one attack.

If you really want to make it more realistic, you could even apply a -1 penalty to actions if a creature or PC has taken one hit; -2 penalty to actions if the creature or PC has taken two hits. (Kind of like the wound system in Star Wars rpg). This could simulate wounds that need to be healed, and reinforces the idea that getting hurt impacts a PC or creatures performance.

 

[timASW]

Here is an idea that just popped into my head. I've never tried it, but for some reason right now it is very interesting to me. It really would change D&D to a different type of game, but that might be what some groups want.

Use CON Score plus level as maximum hit points. For every attack that hits, give creatures or PCs a chance to parry or dodge the blow (rolling over the attack score using either their own basic attack modifiers with a d20 for parry, or their dexterity modifier with a d20 for dodge). This way, each hit has the potential to really do damage. For most PCs, getting hit and failing to parry or dodge 2 or 3 times will take them out of action.

You might need to apply a -1 or -2 penalty to each defense roll vs. multiple attacks to make it more difficult to defend against more than one attack.

If you really want to make it more realistic, you could even apply a -1 penalty to actions if a creature or PC has taken one hit; -2 penalty to actions if the creature or PC has taken two hits. (Kind of like the wound system in Star Wars rpg). This could simulate wounds that need to be healed, and reinforces the idea that getting hurt impacts a PC or creatures performance.

Not too different then how warhammer does it, especially in dark heresy. Hitting your target isnt too tough compared to D&D but each hit gives the target a chance to either dodge or parry. But each character only gets one reaction a round so fighting 1 on 1 can be a lot like a duel with 2 evenly matched fighters going back and forth for a while but if your outnumbered fights get real deadly, real fast.

They also give you bupkiss for HP. The toughest classes probably top out 25 or so. Armor is DR though so it helps some.

 

[IstraRaugir]

It all depends on what you mean with 'deadlier'. Either you want the PCs to actually die a lot; which isn't hard to do with all the tools you have at your disposal. Just lower HP, up the damage, save-or-die, etc. Or, like others have suggested, you want to make combat feel deadlier; which is a bit trickier. I'd suggest using some sort of wound system to have the enemy's attacks carry more weight. A system I like to use personally involves rolling a body-area chart whenever a PC get hits by a crit, is dropped to 1/2 HP or dropped to 0 HP. Whatever limb you roll is then damaged by that attack and actions that rely on that limb get a penalty (-2 to melee attack and damage rolls with an injured arm, -5ft speed with an injured leg). Multiple injuries to the same limb stack to cause more severe penalties and prolong healing time (I work with 3 stages: minor (1 day/simple healing to recover), major (severe penalty, can take up to a month to recover) and mortal (limb permanently disabled, requires some high-end magic to fix). The healing times are an important factor in this: PCs are usually more than willing to risk their lives, knowing that they'll be fully healed in the morning, but if you hang the threat of actually losing a limb above their head, they'll quickly think twice before rushing into combat.

Anyways, that's the system that I like to use. You may like it, or you may not.