Making effective use of the Bard's Multiclass Mastery

[Klaus]

How would you stat up a bard to make use of the Multiclass Mastery feature?

AFAIK, Paladins, Sorcerers and Warlocks have Cha-based attacks. But of these three, Paladins have a Str requirement. Otherwise, attractive to all Bards.

Swordmages and Wizards have Int-based attacks, so they're good for Cunning Bards. This is especially true for Swordmages, who have "Weapon" powers. Both classes have an Implement overlap with Bards, as well.

Warlocks have some Con-based powers, good for Vigorous Bards.

Nearly all other classes have Str, Dex or Wis-based attacks, which aren't a Bard's forte.

All told, a Bard is looking at some serious MAD issue, no?

 

[Smeelbo]

I've mostly been thinking about Cunning Bards, since they appeal to me. I think the answer is to look primarily at the initial M/C feats, and think of them as feats that yield encounter powers. Since typically feats modify powers rather than yield new ones, I think that is the value of bard multi-multi-classing. More encounter powers.

I think a viable Cunning Bard M/M/C build can be done emphasizing just Charisma and Intelligence. I would stick to ranged powers, and avoid weapon powers. Unfortunately, Arcana is already mandatory for Bards, which weakens Warlock and Wizard M/Cs, but still, they can all use wands, and more encounter powers is a good thing.

When I make a specific build, I'll post it here.

Smeelbo

 

[Danceofmasks]

Sometimes you just don't care about the powers of the multiclass.
For instance, the half-elf valorous bard I'm building has 13 str ... to take heavier armour with.

But then ... why not take Berserker's Fury (MC Barbarian) since I have the stats anyway?
It's not like you get any barbarian powers ... you just get a daily encounter-long +2 bonus to all damage rolls. Oh, and a skill.

 

[Mengu]

I like the strength option best, but it depends a bit on the race also.

A Dragonborn Valorous Bard can manage a 13 Strength without breaking a sweat. You can basically become a skill monkey with Warrior of the Wild, Student of Battle, and Berserker's Fury, one of which gives you a good encounter power, and two give you excellent daily powers. You can pick up Scale fairly easily as a bonus.

A Halfling Valorous Bard could easily get a 13 dex. Warrior of the Wild is again an excellent choice. You could pick up Sneak of Shadows for thievery, which you have a racial bonus for, and Whip Training to add more interest to your Guiding Strike, simultaneously giving your allies a bonus to attack and defense, with reach.

I think the most important flexibility comes from filling in a missing role in the party. A Tiefling Cunning Bard who is missing a controller in his group can easily pick up arcane initiate for some control. And if the group is small and he finds himself occasionally needing more defense, he could also pick up Blade Initiate.

 

[bert1000]

There are a lot of potential advantages but haven't done enough mixing yet to have a bunch of concrete examples.

Besides the mutliclass feat bonuses themselves, doesn't the Bard also get access to:

1) multiple sets of class feats?
2) the ability to cherry pick multiclass swap powers (power-swap feats) from any of his/her other classes?
3) maybe a paragon multi class that is actually worth it? (nahh...)

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Sometimes you just don't care about the powers of the multiclass.
For instance, the half-elf valorous bard I'm building has 13 str ... to take heavier armour with.

But then ... why not take Berserker's Fury (MC Barbarian) since I have the stats anyway?
It's not like you get any barbarian powers ... you just get a daily encounter-long +2 bonus to all damage rolls. Oh, and a skill.

Yeah, this is kind of what I figured too. If you had the DEX, for example, you could pick up the Ranger and Rogue MC feats and then have access to both Quarry and Sneak Attack once per encounter. Combine with the Barb or the Sorcerer feats, and you could potentially really up your damage with certain abilities or during a couple encounters per day.

Adding powers on top of that would just be gravy really. I mean, when you can Quarry someone, Sneak Attack them, get a +1 on the attack, add +2 to damage, then another +2 for the rest of the encounter (all on the same attack), do you really need to be able to use Hammer and Anvil or some other class' encounter power?

 

[Smeelbo]

The more I look at Bard Multi-Multi-Classing, the less impressed I am:

• All the arcane multiclasses train Arcana, which the bard already has, so those M/C feats gain the bard less.
• With Skill Versatility and Jack of All Trades, a bard has +3 in all untrained skills, so all other M/C feats gain the bard less.
• Gaining an encounter power, but gaining little or no skill benefit means that a bard gains less benefit from their first M/C feat.
• Bards have a fair number of specific feats, so they have fewer feats left over to play with.

I think Bard Versatility is probably a sucker's bet.

Smeelbo

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

It is actually the Jack of All Trades feat that is the sucker's bet, in my opinion.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

depends what you try to achieve:

jack of all trades doesn´t work with bardic knowledge because both are feat bonuses... so there are two good options to become the jack of all trades... and maybe beginning with jack of all trades and retraining it could be a 3rd option...

 

[satori01]

I Tend to Agree w/ the general consensus for Bard multi-classing is to focus less on powers, but more on skills and encounter power.

There is a Warlord Multi-classing feat in Martial Powers that once per encounter when an ally that can see you uses an Action point the ally gets Temp HP equal to 1/2 level (or such)....which basically make you better at what you do...pre req: Str 13, Cha 13.

A rogue M/C feat also in Martial Powers gives you training in Stealth, and prof in maces and clubs.

I have yet to resolve in my mind the mechanical advantage vs Trained and Untrained. Clearly some skills that give additional benefit (Arcana, Acrobatics), or where the cost of failure is too high (Thievery) there is a clear value vs +5 and in the case of a Bard w/ Jack of all Trades a +3.

For me it comes down to rituals. A Bard w/ the large size of the Skill list can potentially use any Ritual. Moreover some rituals....that say give a bonus to Perception, that in PHB 1 a Cleric or Wizard do not have a a class skill....the Bard could have Trained in.