Xethreau
Josh Gentry - Author, Minister in Training
This is my third and final post in this series—slightly overdue but I hope it's worth the wait!
Making Monsters Matter is about doing that very thing. Previously we have looked at how to make classic folkloric monsters more thrilling by diving back into our ghost story roots. We took that theme of proximity and enhanced it, allowing us to add gravity to our monsters by taking notes from certain monster movies.
In this entry, we draw even closer to the object of our fears and commit the ultimate blasphemy: building hopelessly, outrageously, sickeningly, overpowered encounters.
In case it isn't already plain, I'm talking about building encounters that well outclass the "deadly" category. These face-offs are something that, by rights, should happen in most any heroic fantasy campaign—and especially in horror campaigns. The normative guidance in our TTRPG books doesn't handle these situations well, but it is my sense that A5E is especially well suited to handle them. To make this work, we need to reframe what it means for us to build an encounter with overpowered monsters.
tl;dr - don't be afraid to replace combat vs. shamefully powerful creaturs with exploration challenges. And even if combat does break out, remind your players that they will lose a fight to the death (so they need to get clever fast). Just communicate with your players so everyone shares the same expectations of how hopeless encounters should go down. Also, don't be afraid to let foolish players reap the benefits of their choices.
Making Monsters Matter is about doing that very thing. Previously we have looked at how to make classic folkloric monsters more thrilling by diving back into our ghost story roots. We took that theme of proximity and enhanced it, allowing us to add gravity to our monsters by taking notes from certain monster movies.
In this entry, we draw even closer to the object of our fears and commit the ultimate blasphemy: building hopelessly, outrageously, sickeningly, overpowered encounters.
In case it isn't already plain, I'm talking about building encounters that well outclass the "deadly" category. These face-offs are something that, by rights, should happen in most any heroic fantasy campaign—and especially in horror campaigns. The normative guidance in our TTRPG books doesn't handle these situations well, but it is my sense that A5E is especially well suited to handle them. To make this work, we need to reframe what it means for us to build an encounter with overpowered monsters.
A hopeless encounter is defined as one where one or more enemy creatures have average damage that can one-shot a PC of a given level. This is somewhat different from the definition of an impossible encounter, which is defined by net difficulty and the assumption of being "impossible to win." With the hopeless encounter, the threat is so extreme to each individual PC that any subject to the threat will likely instantly die.
The average damage info can also be used to determine what kinds of objects the creatures can one-shot. (I'll go ahead and do that for us!) This helps us know right away what kind of materials are actually helpful in escaping a hopeless threat. And, the materials instantly destroyed by the creature in one turn of effort will be important in a later step (when we select exploration challenges).
EDIT: The inverse of a hopeless threat is a pitiable challenge---a creature you can one-shot, who has basically no chance against you on its own. Most creatures are prone to ignoring pitiable challenges unless they are foolish enough to actually attack. The horse swats not the flies that leave them well enough alone. (Noteworthy exceptions apply, particularly creatures on the hunt. Hungry ankhegs, trolls, giants, and dragons, etc.)
Some Notes
The average damage info can also be used to determine what kinds of objects the creatures can one-shot. (I'll go ahead and do that for us!) This helps us know right away what kind of materials are actually helpful in escaping a hopeless threat. And, the materials instantly destroyed by the creature in one turn of effort will be important in a later step (when we select exploration challenges).
EDIT: The inverse of a hopeless threat is a pitiable challenge---a creature you can one-shot, who has basically no chance against you on its own. Most creatures are prone to ignoring pitiable challenges unless they are foolish enough to actually attack. The horse swats not the flies that leave them well enough alone. (Noteworthy exceptions apply, particularly creatures on the hunt. Hungry ankhegs, trolls, giants, and dragons, etc.)
Some Notes
- A creature is "hopeless" for a PC to face off against if it is of a CR higher than the CR maximum (for a single PC). These creatures can typically kill a PC in 1 round of successful attacks.
- Objects are compared against the attack bonus and average DPR of the creature. Reinforced structures may be able to resist these attacks if this damage is spread out across multiple hits.
- I haven't figured out how Elite monsters figure into this yet. Insight welcomed.
- The damage of exploration challenges may not follow the same rules as monsters. For the sake of this table, I assume they nonetheless represent an overall comparable level of challenge and lethality to their monster counterparts. Definitions of "instant death" may vary.
| Monster | Example | Hopeless for Average PCs of… | Objects Instantly Destroyed (Material—Size) |
| CR 2 | Ankheg, cave bear, grick Stampede | Level 1 | Glass, crystal, or ice—up to Medium resilient |
| CR 4 | Banshee, elephant, vampire spawn, ghost Pit trap, rooftop run | Level 2 and less | Wood, bone—up to Medium resilient |
| CR 5 | Giant crocodile, flesh guardian, troll Rockfall | Level 3 and less | Stone—up to Large resilient |
| CR 7 | Chimera, cyclops, giant ape Poison darts, sandstorm | Level 4 and less | Stone—up to Large resilient |
| CR 8 | T-Rex, stone giant Acid field, wild magic zone | Level 5 and less | Stone—up to Large resilient |
| CR 10 | Cloud giant, deva, stone guardian, young gold dragon Rolling sphere, tornado | Level 6 and less | Iron, steel—Large resilient object (x2) |
| CR 11 | Aboleth, archmage, horned devil, vampire Caught in the crossfire, sphere of annihilation | Level 7 and less | Iron, steel—Large resilient object (x2) |
| CR 13 | Roc, rakshasa, vampire mage Bridge of sorrow | Level 8 and less | Iron, steel—Large resilient object (x2) |
| CR 14 | Ascetic grandmaster, knight captain, storm giant Perilous cliff path | Level 9 and less | Adamantine, mithral—Large resilient (x2) |
| CR 16 | Adult white dragon, archpriest, sea serpent Hallowed ground, malfunctioning planar portal | Level 10 and less | Adamantine, mithral—Large resilient (x2) |
| CR 17 | Adult black dragon, dragon turtle, master assassin God corpse, tsunami | Level 11 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x3) |
| CR 19 | Adult shadow dragon, arcane blademaster, balor Forest fire | Level 12 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x3) |
| CR 20 | Adult red dragon, pit fiend Divine war | Level 13 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x3) |
| CR 22 | Ancient White Dragon Empyrean | Level 14 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x4) |
| CR 23 | Ancient Black Dragon Great Wyrm Black Dragon | Level 15 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x4) |
| CR 25 | Ancient Blue Dragon Kraken | Level 16 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x4) |
| CR 26 | Ancient Gold Dragon Ancient Red Dragon | Level 17 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x5) |
| CR 28 | — | Level 18 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x5) |
| CR 29 | — | Level 19 and less | Adamantine, mithral, or greater—Large resilient (x6) |
| CR 31 | — | Level 20 and less | — |
There is a common sentiment among TTRPG gamers these days, that the Narrator will never present a challenge which the players cannot reasponably defeat. (We can blame certain videogames for this sentiment. And yes, OSR fans may well be disabused of this sentiment.) So there comes a desire to help players come to understand their situation in-universe.
In consultation with other A5E developers, there are a few options I'd like to present. I think they are both good options, and they are each better suited for different campaigns or play styles. Either way, communicate with your play group to see which one everyone agrees is the best fit. This will help norm expectations for sticky situations.
Option 1: Instant Awareness
In this option, when PCs discern a creature, they can instantly determine whether or not it presents a Hopeless challenge to them individually. This is a lot like identifying whether or not a creature is bloodied. With the bloodied condition, PCs can identify the signs of wounds, exhaustion, and demoralization on a creature. Similarly, characters can sense a hopeless challenge instantly, through a combination of keen observations, intuition, and sheer primal survival instinct. Characters might describe this sense in various ways depending on their worldview.
EDIT: Observing a mighty creature smash through materials like stone walls is also a great way of telegraphing that the creature is a hopelessly overwhelming threat.
Option 2: New Action "Assess Danger"
As an action, choose one target you can see. You made a Wisdom or Intelligence check. At the Narrator's discretion, check might benefit from Perception or Insight. The DC is 10, unless one of the targets conceals its nature (disguise, stealth, illusion, fear effect, etc.) with a higher DC. The results vary based on the DC and/or the result:
In consultation with other A5E developers, there are a few options I'd like to present. I think they are both good options, and they are each better suited for different campaigns or play styles. Either way, communicate with your play group to see which one everyone agrees is the best fit. This will help norm expectations for sticky situations.
Option 1: Instant Awareness
In this option, when PCs discern a creature, they can instantly determine whether or not it presents a Hopeless challenge to them individually. This is a lot like identifying whether or not a creature is bloodied. With the bloodied condition, PCs can identify the signs of wounds, exhaustion, and demoralization on a creature. Similarly, characters can sense a hopeless challenge instantly, through a combination of keen observations, intuition, and sheer primal survival instinct. Characters might describe this sense in various ways depending on their worldview.
EDIT: Observing a mighty creature smash through materials like stone walls is also a great way of telegraphing that the creature is a hopelessly overwhelming threat.
Option 2: New Action "Assess Danger"
As an action, choose one target you can see. You made a Wisdom or Intelligence check. At the Narrator's discretion, check might benefit from Perception or Insight. The DC is 10, unless one of the targets conceals its nature (disguise, stealth, illusion, fear effect, etc.) with a higher DC. The results vary based on the DC and/or the result:
- Failure (check result 9 or lower) -- You don't find the target particularly alarming, or the target is hard to assess.
- Success (DC 10) -- You determine whether the target represents a hopeless challenge to you.
- Failure (check result 10 or higher) -- Something is off about the target, but you cannot say precisely what. If against a fear effect, you instead rate the target as posing a hopeless challenge (accurately or not).
- Success (Higher DC) -- You pierce the disguise or otherwise determine the accurate nature of the target; you also learn if the target represents a hopeless challenge to you.
So now that both the Narrator and the players know they are in a fight they cannot win, what happens next?
Generally speaking, mighty creatures don't care about pitiable threats. If PCs find themselves in close contact with a hopelessly powerful creature, this may not be enough to draw them into combat. That should only be the case if the story demands it. The PCs may have the chance to figure out a way around the creature instead of through it… and that would likely represent an Exploration Challenge.
So suppose the party slips and falls into the lair of a sleeping elder sapphire dragon… The creature still represents a threat even when its asleep, but as long as the players do not foolishly pick a fight with it, they have a chance to survive. What exploration challenges might a sapphire dragon present in its immediate surroundings?
Now suppose that this same elder sapphire dragon used its layer to manipulate the PCs into ultimately awakening the terrasque. The terrasque is a hopeless challenge against all but the mightiest heroes. What kind of exploration challenges might the terrasque present against PCs just trying to stay beneath its notice? Depending on just how horrible the awakening of the terrasque is, it could cause anything from:
Of course, some of these exploration challenges are also highly appropriate for these creatures as signs of their presence in the campaign world. Also important to worth mentioning—again, a player who is foolish enough to pick a fight with a hopelessly powerful adversary doesn't get to benefit from these narrative shifts—they deserve to be eaten.
EDIT: Keep in mind that the PCs are likely not the only ones responding to the situation involving the overwhelming presence of a hopelessly challenging creature. What kinds of plots emerge when a terrasque isn't in the wilderness, but is in a capital city? How do the persistent problems, conflicts, and stalemates of power respond to the catalyst of this disaster? This is an important opportunity to set the tone of your campaign and provide your players with challenges appropriate for their characters. A campaign where you save orphans from a chemical fire will be profoundly different than when you use the opportunity of a zombie attack to raid the national treasury.
Finally, combat breaking out in any of these cases should remain a distinct possibility. It should be a possibility that players put active effort into avoiding. Even if combat does break out, the players should be connected to their goals deeply enough for them to recognize and act on their objectives---and try to clinch those objectives from the jaws of defeat. This might mean distracting and manipulating a hopelessly powerful monster, or it might mean making a sacrifice for the greater good. These are the challenges that are the stuff of legend.
Generally speaking, mighty creatures don't care about pitiable threats. If PCs find themselves in close contact with a hopelessly powerful creature, this may not be enough to draw them into combat. That should only be the case if the story demands it. The PCs may have the chance to figure out a way around the creature instead of through it… and that would likely represent an Exploration Challenge.
So suppose the party slips and falls into the lair of a sleeping elder sapphire dragon… The creature still represents a threat even when its asleep, but as long as the players do not foolishly pick a fight with it, they have a chance to survive. What exploration challenges might a sapphire dragon present in its immediate surroundings?
- any type of trap
- lost item
- rockfall
Now suppose that this same elder sapphire dragon used its layer to manipulate the PCs into ultimately awakening the terrasque. The terrasque is a hopeless challenge against all but the mightiest heroes. What kind of exploration challenges might the terrasque present against PCs just trying to stay beneath its notice? Depending on just how horrible the awakening of the terrasque is, it could cause anything from:
- rockfall
- divine war
- primordial tornado
- sunspots
- wild magic zone
Of course, some of these exploration challenges are also highly appropriate for these creatures as signs of their presence in the campaign world. Also important to worth mentioning—again, a player who is foolish enough to pick a fight with a hopelessly powerful adversary doesn't get to benefit from these narrative shifts—they deserve to be eaten.
EDIT: Keep in mind that the PCs are likely not the only ones responding to the situation involving the overwhelming presence of a hopelessly challenging creature. What kinds of plots emerge when a terrasque isn't in the wilderness, but is in a capital city? How do the persistent problems, conflicts, and stalemates of power respond to the catalyst of this disaster? This is an important opportunity to set the tone of your campaign and provide your players with challenges appropriate for their characters. A campaign where you save orphans from a chemical fire will be profoundly different than when you use the opportunity of a zombie attack to raid the national treasury.
Finally, combat breaking out in any of these cases should remain a distinct possibility. It should be a possibility that players put active effort into avoiding. Even if combat does break out, the players should be connected to their goals deeply enough for them to recognize and act on their objectives---and try to clinch those objectives from the jaws of defeat. This might mean distracting and manipulating a hopelessly powerful monster, or it might mean making a sacrifice for the greater good. These are the challenges that are the stuff of legend.
tl;dr - don't be afraid to replace combat vs. shamefully powerful creaturs with exploration challenges. And even if combat does break out, remind your players that they will lose a fight to the death (so they need to get clever fast). Just communicate with your players so everyone shares the same expectations of how hopeless encounters should go down. Also, don't be afraid to let foolish players reap the benefits of their choices.
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