Making paladin feat choices is tough!

[Wolfwood2]

I've got a human paladin that is currently 5th level. He'll probably be making 6th level at the end of next game. I keep going back and forth on my 6th level feat choice.

Right now his feats are:
Power Attack (Human)
Cleave (1st)
Mounted Combat (3rd)

I consider those to be some fairly solid choices. But what should I take at 6th level? High in the running are:

Ride-by Attack (PHB)
Pros: It gets me one step closer to Spirited Charge, which I do eventually want. Spirited Charge will be huge. Also useful for fighting big tough creature that I do not want to take a full attack from. Ride-by attack means only engaging if I want to.

Cons: In addition to the opportunity cost, these are the levels where it is actually effective to have my special mount full attacking. It hasn't yet been left behind in attack bonus, hitpoints, and AC as it will be at higher levels. Maybe Ride-by Attack can wait until 9th?

Divine Power (Complete Warrior, give up turn attempt for charisma bonus to damage on all attacks for one round)
Pros: Turning undead is a waste of time for my paladin. This lets him trade in those turn attempts for useful damage. Currently my pallie has a 16 charisma (with cloak) and it will only go up and up as he levels. Can be used whether mounted or on foot. Also, it doesn't even take up a swift action.

Cons: +3 damage isn't a lot. Damage is easy. And it only works for six rounds per day.

Law Devotion (Complete Champion, sacred +3 bonus to hit or to AC for one minute)
Pros: Very flexible. I can switch the bonus from AC or to-hit (which I can trade for damage with PA) as a free action. Scales with level nicely. Can expend those turn attempts for extra uses. (Currently would be able to use it three times/day.) Perfectly in character, as paladin is devoted to Saint Cuthbert.

Cons: Unlike Divine Power, is explicitly a swift action to activate, making it compete with swift action paladin spells. Also is a specific (if rare) bonus, so won't stack with other sacred bonuses.

Hmmmm.

What does everybody think?

 

[avr]

Ride-by attack without spirited charge is not a great idea IMO. When you get to pull it off you can easily end your action with your paladin on the far side of a slightly injured monster and a clear path for it to charge the softer and squishier members of your party. Save it for when you pick up a fighter level or something so you can get both at once.

Law devotion may be the better of the other 2. I think CW was pre-swift actions? so you might find some change/errata nerfing Divine Power later on. Anyway, the option of +3 AC helps you stand there and take it when you have to, which happens as the party tank sometimes. The bonus type is rare enough that you should be able to work around it.

 

[Legildur]

If you expect to make much use from Mounted Combat, then Ride by Attack would be a good choice.

Divine Power has the advantage of adding to damage whether mounted or on foot, so it is a little more flexible than Ride by Attack.

Personally, Law Devotion looks good. I say this because it is better than Divine Power, as it lasts for 1 minute (instead of 1 round) and it achieves the same result (at your current Charisma score) - get +3 Sacred bonus to attack and trade that for damage using Power Attack (works even better when using a lance when mounted).

 

[Wolfwood2]

Ride-by attack without spirited charge is not a great idea IMO. When you get to pull it off you can easily end your action with your paladin on the far side of a slightly injured monster and a clear path for it to charge the softer and squishier members of your party. Save it for when you pick up a fighter level or something so you can get both at once.

That's never going to happen, as I am pretty committed to straight Paladin 20.

Law devotion may be the better of the other 2. I think CW was pre-swift actions? so you might find some change/errata nerfing Divine Power later on. Anyway, the option of +3 AC helps you stand there and take it when you have to, which happens as the party tank sometimes. The bonus type is rare enough that you should be able to work around it.

Kind of leaning that way at the moment, certainly.

 

[nittanytbone]

I'd go for Law Devotion now, and either retrain it later (once CHA is higher) or add a different Divine Feat later.

Skip Ride By Attack.

 

[Wolfwood2]

I'd go for Law Devotion now, and either retrain it later (once CHA is higher) or add a different Divine Feat later.

Skip Ride By Attack.

My DM screwed up his face in complete disgust when I mentioned retraining rules. But why would I retrain it later, anyway? It actually does scale with level. +7 bonus at 15th level is pretty good.

If I skip Ride By Attack, I never get to Spirited Charge and so never get that sweet x3 Smite, full two-handed Power Attack (with Find the Gap) charge.

 

[Mouseferatu]

When playing a paladin--something I do relatively often--I'm a big fan of the various Divine feats. Since paladins are already second-rate undead-turners, it's always nice to have something else to do with those turn attempts.

And I also really like the new Battle Blessing feat from Complete Champion. Some people will tell you it's broken, but given how rarely most paladins get to use their spells IMO (since it's almost always a better option to just attack, or else lay on hands), I find that it brings paladin casting up to snuff, as opposed to overpowering it.

 

[Moggthegob]

or do the other thing that trades Paadin spells. IMo Cleave was a mistake. you should have taken mounted combat and then taken your riding feats. ASAP thats what a paladin is all about. PA is nice but should have been taken at 6th after you could spirited charge.

 

[Wolfwood2]

or do the other thing that trades Paadin spells. IMo Cleave was a mistake. you should have taken mounted combat and then taken your riding feats. ASAP thats what a paladin is all about. PA is nice but should have been taken at 6th after you could spirited charge.

(shrug) It's one of the differences between playing a character from first level and building a character at a higher level. At first level, not only did I not have the money to buy a warhorse, there were no warhorses available in the immediate area for sale. In fact, I have never been in an area where there was a warhorse available for sale.

It was bad enough sucking down Mounted Combat as a wasted feat for levels 3 and 4, until I got my Mount at 5th. I certainly wasn't going to take three feats I couldn't use until level 5. So I took Power Attack and Cleave, and both proved extremely useful for a role as the party tank. Heck, Cleave remains a primo feat all the way through high levels, so I don't regret having it.

I take it you advise going for Ride-by Attack after all? You might just talk me into it. I can just taste that quadruple damage (lance + Rhino's Rush + Spirited Charge) charge at 9th level. It's a tough call.

I wouldn't give up paladin spells. With the Spell Compendium open, they get some real winners.

 

[green slime]

I prefer the Divine feats myself: Both from Complete Warrior.

Divine Vigour (+2 Con, +10' speed!)
Divine Might (Latest version is a swift action, IIRC)

Law Devotion I haven't seen yet (no Complete Champion), but it seems good, .