Making Player Rolls

[EP]

Everyone always says roll the players dice for them, but that just seems like cheating. And it never seems to go over well when the DM tells you that he rolled for you and you failed... especially at a critical moment for his NPC to continue the plot. But if you have the players roll dice and dont' tell them what's going on, they get suspicious and cautious without any reason, no matter how much they try to avoid meta-gaming.

Ideas?

 

[SadisticFishing]

I'm *always* suspicious and cautious as a player, so my DM's don't need to worry about that with me! ... but they do anyways, because they assume my paranoia isn't strong enough to compare to a failed spot check. Ha.

Um, let the players roll, tell them what they're rolling for, and make them do it at random. They should always be on edge anyways.

Or do what I decided to do in the current city (more of a dungeon though, it's mostly empty) - they roll spot/listen when they want to, I'm too lazy to roll for them every time someone's near. Plus none of them have any ranks in spot.

 

[Dross]

One option that seems most useful is:

Have the players make a series of roll at the start of the night and use these rolls at the appropriate time. you will need to have the modifyers, but that should be easy enough anyway. You could even have the players roll a series of saves and skill checks with all their modifyers and mark those down to use when needed.

I also have an excel spreadsheet that gives random numbers. I print out a page worth and mark each one off as it is used. Not the same as the player's rolling, but if YOU start rolling dice, players are going to get suspicious anyway.

Another bonus is that the spreadsheet is great for saving throughs, attack rolls and the like for large groups.

Formula is "=RAND()*(20-1)+1"

 

[SadisticFishing]

That jus doesn't seem that much fun, though we also use spreadsheets (not when I DM I memorize everything :X)

 

[Diggus Rex]

Sometimes for spots and/or listens when the players roll, if they dont hit the DC I'll describe some piece of their surroundings to make it seem like that's what the roll was for. They'll calm down or go to investigate and get caught by the ambush.

For most other rolls I have an index card with relevant modifers for PCs and just roll when needed. Often ahead of time so the mysterious roll is forgotten.

 

[Nail]

Everyone always says roll the players dice for them, but that just seems like cheating.

Who's this "everyone" of which you speak?

Sometimes (especially for disabiling traps or opponent's hide checks) the DM should roll the check in secret. But really the vast majority of the time it's preferable to roll out in the open so that everyone can see the result.

Could you give us an example that you're having trouble with?

Me, I worry as much about DMs fudging the dice in our favor as I do having the DM stiff us on a roll. "Let the dice fall where they may."

 

[Psimancer]

I would recommend you check out Robin Laws' Esoterrorists for a slightly different take on the topic of advancing plot lines based on character skills.

His arguments are quite compelling and enlightening (as always); even if you never run an Esoterrorists game, the book is a good read, and good value.

On a personal level, if the PC are going to be aware of the situation seconds later, have them roll anyway. If they aren't going to be aware of it anytime soon, don't even tell them you have rolled (avoid the bad feelings). If it's a case of you as the GM knowing the value of certain skills (such as spot, listen, etc), have it already written down and clipped on the inside of your GM screen. And as a last piece of advice, have each player roll a d20 twenty times and note it down; when a roll is needed by a player, refer to the sheet instead and mark off the roll - this way, the player did actually make the roll himself - it's just time-shifted.

 

[shilsen]

We're dealing with dice here. Unless someone is cheating, neither the DM nor the player has any control over it. As a player, I don't care if the DM rolls some, none or all of my rolls for me. As a DM, if I think I should roll something for the player I do so, but I mostly let them roll things themselves.

 

[irdeggman]

Who's this "everyone" of which you speak?

yeah, what he said.

 

[roguerouge]

I also have an excel spreadsheet that gives random numbers. I print out a page worth and mark each one off as it is used. Not the same as the player's rolling, but if YOU start rolling dice, players are going to get suspicious anyway.

Another bonus is that the spreadsheet is great for saving throughs, attack rolls and the like for large groups.

Formula is "=RAND()*(20-1)+1"

"Can you explain how this works?" he said, hijacking the thread for his own nefarious purposes. "When I pasted that formula into a cell, I got a random number, true, but when I did it in the next cell I got a random number that changed the prior random number."