Making the expert a PC class.

[Kahuna Burger]

I'd like to make the expert a PC worthy class... partly to have a very customizable core class, partly cause I like skills, and partly as an excuse to knock the rogue back a bit as the default "skill class" (it seems if you want any skills except the nature ones, you need to add a few levels of rogue to make your chaacter concept work, and I dislike that. Rogues are being knocked back to 6 skill points IMC with this class added to round things out.)

The new expert class :

Flavor text - DM approval. As a highly customizable class, the expert is open to more abuse and misuse than most others. The initial selections of class skills and saves must be approved by the DM prior to fully fleshing out the character. Except in extraordinary circumstances, a character should not be allowed to multiclass between two differently designed expert classes.

Saves - Experts have one good save which can be assigned at character creation. It is advised that the save assignment be consistant with class skills - an expert who chooses mainly dexterity based skills would be likely to have a good reflex save, a wilderness oriented expert might be more likely to have a good fort save, and a highly intellectual expert should probably be given a good will save.

BAB - As Cleric

Skills - At initial creation, an expert is assigned up to 15 class skills. Craft, knowlege and proffession skills are an exception to this rule. Two specific skills of these types can be taken instead of one regular skill. An expert has 8 skill points per level.

Feats - At first level and every even level thereafter, the expert gains a bonus feat from a narrow list of skill related feats. This list includes skill focus, greater skill focus, any "synergy skill feat" (+2/+2 feats) and feats which allow special uses of a skill (track, wild empathy, trapsense*, create chemicals*, animal friend*) as well as any feat the DM accepts as synergistic with the expert's design. An expert's bonus feats should never be metamagic or combat feats.

*trapsense and create chemicals are feats to reproduce the "and only a rogue" rules and the new rule that alchemy can only be fully practiced by a spellcaster, respectively. Animal friend requires Wild Empathy, 8 ranks in animal handling and wis and cha 13+ and allows the expert to recruit animal companions as a druid of half her expert level.

Thats the first draft, thrown out almost as it was thought in an excedrin induced frezy, please give me some comments. Most specifically, do you think its a viable PC class?

Kahuna burger

 

[Xeriar]

The thing is fixing up the Aristocrat would look quite similar - and still superior - to even this expert.

Perhaps if he had something else going for him, in crafting items or something like that (Free masterwork?)

 

[Kahuna Burger]

The thing is fixing up the Aristocrat would look quite similar - and still superior - to even this expert.

Perhaps if he had something else going for him, in crafting items or something like that (Free masterwork?)

hrm? Since I don't know what "fixed up" aristocrat you are refering to, this statement doesn't have a lot of meaning for me. I don't think all martial weapons and armor come close to making up for what this class has over the aristocrat as written...

All experts are not crafters, but what you are describing could easily be a feat or feat chain that they could take with their bonus feats. Another option would be letting experts with very high ranks in both a craft and use magical device take an item creation feat (or perhaps only craft magical arms and armor with the requisite crafts) but the point is to have a customizable skill based class that is on a PC power level.

Kahuna burger

 

[Kahuna Burger]

After a brief check of the weapons and armor proficiencies, I'm going to alter that slightly to include all simple weapons plus any three weapons from the list of martial weapons, whip or net. They are proficient with light armor and small shields and bucklers.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Tonguez]

At first glance this 'class' looks far too powerful, too abusable and too generic. That could be solved by creating certain Feat chains to model Expert 'kits' - say a Crafter Chain, a Scholar chain, a Tinkers chain, a Professional chain, a Wanderers chain etc.

I think the Animal Friend ability is treading on toes too much - just max out Wild Empathy if you want someone good with beasties

oh yeah and the new Alchemy rule is stupid - just give Experts Alchemy! Me I also let Experts take the Craft Magic feats as long as they have Spellcraft ranks

 

[Xeriar]

hrm? Since I don't know what "fixed up" aristocrat you are refering to, this statement doesn't have a lot of meaning for me. I don't think all martial weapons and armor come close to making up for what this class has over the aristocrat as written...

Many give it the same feat progression, with some social feats involved. He essentially becomes a fighter with more skills, but lower BAB, hit points, and a good will save instead of a good fortitude save.

This class can do little except to get +5 to any several skills it wants to. Which is cool and all - but it gives no ability a PC can't get for himself in most cases.

Compare your expert's list of bonus feats to the fighter's. Sure, the expert gets some more skills - so what? The fighter gets full BAB, full martial and armor proficiencies, d10 hit die, and a comparitively awesome feat selection.

In order for the expert to be viable, something about him would have to be comparitively awesome.

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In a campaign where combat is less the norm than is usually given for D&D, this expert might work, but not right now...

 

[Afrodyte]

One rule I'm using for Experts is that they have to be an Expert of something. You can't just slap together a bunch of unrelated skills and say, "Here's my Expert." If you want a scholar, I'd be hard-pressed to wrap my head around it if they were particularly adept at athletic skills like Balance, Climb, Jump, Swim, or Tumble. If you want a rare and magic items dealer, it would make sense to have Appraise, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (arcana), Sense Motive, Speak Language, and Use Magic Device as class skills.

A class ability I gave to Experts is something I'm calling expert knowledge. It's a blatant rip from the bardic knowledge ability, but I tweaked it to give it more flavor for the expert. At 7th level, Experts may make a special Knowledge check to see if they possess information pertaining to notable people, legendary items, creatures, noteworthy places, or events related to their area of expertise. They make a Knowledge check as normal but add their Expert levels and any ranks in the relevant Knowledge skill. In essence, it's a trivial knowledge check. The levels are added because the more life experience they have, the more useful (or useless) tidbits they come across. This ability can be used only once per person, item, creature, or place.

Since I am only using the NPC classes in my game, the rest of what I created for the Expert is not on par with what the PHB classes get. However, that ability is something I think would make sense for an Expert of any power level.

 

[Destil]

I've been thinking of something like this...

If anything I'd give them some added rogue like special abilities at high level... like skill mastery, mabye take 11 (add +11 when you take 10) thought take 13 or so and some other skill related things...