Malareth from Twisting Halls

[Dave0047]

Because I'm unable to make it to friends places or my FLGS that often, I thought I'd run an Essentials-Only campaign at home with just my wife using the Essentials adventures (Red Box, Kill the Messengers, Ghost Tower, Dungeon of Ghost Tower, Reavers of Harkenwold, and Cairn of the Winter King). She volunteered to run two characters to my one (I was DMing too) so that we're not walking into a "4+ players" series of modules at half-strength, and we started playing last week having her main character go through the Red Box intro, just for the back story of course.

Well anyways, when we were inside the Twisting Halls, she decided our party should go straight east (towards encounter seven) and so we did. We skill-challenged our way past the dragon and beat down the Goblins/Bugbear only to appear in Malareth's room, a Level 5 encounter, as three 1st level characters:

Keira (Lvl 1 Druid - Sentinel, Has Healing Word and a Bear companion)
Lucan (Lvl 1 Ranger - Hunter)
Brannus (Lvl 1 Fighter - Slayer, not exactly the same as the pre-gen)

With three characters (sorta-kinda four with the Bear), we were doing okay until we met the masterful Necromancer and his mighty undead posse. About eight rounds into the encounter, with one fell swoop all of our characters were killed. We were immediately bottle-necked at the entrance to the room as the monsters rolled higher initiatives (A +6 Init ON THE SKELETONS!), and because we were taking the dungeon a room at a time, we only laid out a room's worth of tiles. We don't have the Red Box map, so laying out only one room at a time also hurt us I guess. The Hulking Zombie kept getting up with Zombie Rejuvenation which allowed him to actually kill my Fighter on the last round, Malareth recharged his area blast almost every time (okay, that was just bad luck for us), and the Skeletons just wouldn't drop with a 19 AC and 45 Hit Points. At the end, we had the Hulking Zombie dolphining, one Skeleton dead, one Bloodied, and a few hit points off of the rest.

I mean, I hear that Irontooth is hard (the Goblin leader guy from H1 - Keep on the Shadowfell) but honestly the party of four I was DMing for at the time had zero issues with him. They gang-raped that fool. But Malareth? Wow, all together, those skeletons, the zombie, and the necromancer were all a bit too much for us.

So what I'm asking is two parts: what did we do wrong, and has anyone else had issues with the Malareth fight which is Encounter Seven from the Twisting Halls in the Red Box?

--Update--
While I was typing this, my wife and I decided that we should make some new characters (ignoring the essentials-only restriction) and try again. Thoughts on this?

 

[martincwday]

IIRC, when I DM'd this, I think I 'nudged' the players into leaving this room until last. In addition, my party came up with a complex plan (involving a goblin they'd already befriended - who's still with them now, over a year later!) to pretend to have been captured. Some of them then managed to run from the room, taking the pursuing skeletons with them, and effectively doing a bit of 'divide and conquer'. I may also have RP'd Malareth a bit, and had him so complacent and confident - so obsessed by Traevus's wooden box (as is implied in the description) - that he didn't even attack every round.

Not sure if any of this helps, but there you go. (I also brought Malareth back from the dead later, but that's another story...)

 

[Dave0047]

IIRC, when I DM'd this, I think I 'nudged' the players into leaving this room until last. In addition, my party came up with a complex plan (involving a goblin they'd already befriended - who's still with them now, over a year later!) to pretend to have been captured. Some of them then managed to run from the room, taking the pursuing skeletons with them, and effectively doing a bit of 'divide and conquer'. I may also have RP'd Malareth a bit, and had him so complacent and confident - so obsessed by Traevus's wooden box (as is implied in the description) - that he didn't even attack every round.

Not sure if any of this helps, but there you go. (I also brought Malareth back from the dead later, but that's another story...)

Thanks for the info. I do plan on bringing Malareth back (he was too cool) but that won't be for a while. In the mean time, I guess I could have "nudged" her through the encounters in order, but I was just letting her decide. For round two, we have ditched the essentials characters (they were likely turned into Malareth's servants per what he says in the module) and so far we're going in with an Avenger, a Paladin, and a Shaman (all three of which have anti-undead powers I think).

I'm still worried about the Hulking Zombie because it gets back up and can one-shot us easily, but I could be nice and say that it only gets up that round on a D6 roll of 4+, or that if everything else is dead then it's dead too.

 

[Rechan]

I think it's unwise to play multiple characters, especially when it's just you and one person, especially if you're having a DMPC. Particularly if you're going to not go with Essentials classes, as they have fewer choices.

If you're that strapped for a group, you might want to consider gaming online. There are several VTT options.

My personal preference is Maptools + a voice chat program.

 

[D'karr]

The encounter difficulty in most adventures is done with a party of 5 in mind. When adjusting an encounter for a smaller party (4) remove one of the lower level creatures. If you have a smaller party than that, I would rework the encounters more drastically. That usually helps in balancing encounters for the smaller parties. The basic (rough guideline) encounter design of 4e is meant to have one enemy for each party member. Solos and Elites are different.

Running multiple characters is not something I'd recommend but if that's the only way to game then go for it. BTW, an animal companion would never be counted as an additional party member because its actions are limited (shared with its companion), unlike a regular party member.

 

[Dave0047]

I think it's unwise to play multiple characters, especially when it's just you and one person, especially if you're having a DMPC. Particularly if you're going to not go with Essentials classes, as they have fewer choices.

If you're that strapped for a group, you might want to consider gaming online. There are several VTT options.

My personal preference is Maptools + a voice chat program.

Playing at home with my wife allows both of us to play regularly (we have kids), and it lets us walk away from the game instantly if we need to. We don't have multiple computers to allow for both of us to play online, and we can't always get a sitter for the kids. I hear of people running multiple characters all the time, and as a DM do I not run 5-10 monsters and an NPC on a regular basis anyways? It's not that hard for a player to run multiple characters as long as they're capable and willing to.

The encounter difficulty in most adventures is done with a party of 5 in mind. When adjusting an encounter for a smaller party (4) remove one of the lower level creatures. If you have a smaller party than that, I would rework the encounters more drastically. That usually helps in balancing encounters for the smaller parties. The basic (rough guideline) encounter design of 4e is meant to have one enemy for each party member. Solos and Elites are different.

Running multiple characters is not something I'd recommend but if that's the only way to game then go for it. BTW, an animal companion would never be counted as an additional party member because its actions are limited (shared with its companion), unlike a regular party member.

Funny, most encounters I've seen are written for a party of four PC's (in fact one of each role) and most monster counts for published adventures are in the 6-10 range.

Anyways, yes, I know the Bear doesn't count, and that's why I said we went through it with "three 1st-level characters"...

I honestly don't think drastically re-working the encounters is necessary. Considering they are usually written for four PC's, running three SHOULDN'T tip the balance. Eliminating a small monster or two might definitely work but honestly I can't understand why they didn't just make the hallways snake around from one encounter to the next if they wanted you to do them in order (and not make a B-line for encounter seven like we did), or have a series of locked doors with the key being on Malareth. This would have allowed us to possibly level-up before encounter seven. A level-five encounter is possibly a bit much for level-one PC's considering "level plus three" is the most you should throw at a party for a "hard" encounter.

 

[aco175]

If it is a level 5 encounter that is made for 5 pcs and you have 3, than I would expect you to have problems. I'm not sure I would count the bear as another, sorta, pc since that is part of the druid makeup and I would think the designers weighed that into keeping that class ballanced with the rest. Generall anything 3 levels higher than the party is a tough fight. Previous post was right in that you take a monster out for each pc less than 5 you are missing.
I tend to have a DMPC along with the group. I tend to stat him out more like a monster or companion in the DMG2. He is never as powerful as the other classes, but the power gamers in the group make up for his lacking as a full pc.
If you still plan to keep the party going you can have them all now prisoners of the necromancer. Need a reasonable reason why he would keep them alive though. Perhaps sold as slaves to the goblins/hobgoblins. Some secret treaty/agreement between them. Give him a good dialog in your evil emperor if the sith voice and the pcs will want to come back just for a rematch. I usually save my evil emperor voice for when I'm not with my wife, well as least for when I'm not gaming.

 

[D'karr]

Eliminating a small monster or two might definitely work but honestly I can't understand why they didn't just make the hallways snake around from one encounter to the next if they wanted you to do them in order (and not make a B-line for encounter seven like we did), or have a series of locked doors with the key being on Malareth. This would have allowed us to possibly level-up before encounter seven. A level-five encounter is possibly a bit much for level-one PC's considering "level plus three" is the most you should throw at a party for a "hard" encounter.

YMMV, but running from an encounter (avoiding it) is always an option. Actually it is a better option than the adventure "funneling" the players from one level appropriate encounter to the next.

 

[Dave0047]

YMMV, but running from an encounter (avoiding it) is always an option. Actually it is a better option than the adventure "funneling" the players from one level appropriate encounter to the next.

True. We could have tried to run once we discovered how much of a handful that encounter was, though Malareth had the Ray of Immobilization and it had a crazy hit bonus. Not everyone was going to make it out. If we did, maybe we could have re-grouped, gone through the other encounters, leveled-up, and re-tried that room, but as it stands it was extremely tough.

I will certainly take all this under advisement for our second run through, and since we plan on doing that tonight, I'll reply here with how things went with our changes (one fewer monster in each room, and non-essentials PC's).