Mana, Shamans, and the Cultural Misappropriation behind Fantasy Terms

[Jfdlsjfd]

Then the answer is that eating sentient beings is not inherently evil in D&D. Eating your neighbor who you just murdered? Probably evil cannibalism. Eating a human prisoner who just wandered into Lizard Man territory for sustenance? Clearly not evil in D&D.

Indeed. There is no reason (except random happenstance) that the absolute morality system of a fantasy world should align perfectly with the ethics of the reader. I think it's especially true since I doubt the D&D community can agree on a common shared set of ethics, given it's worldwide diffusion.

 

[Sadras]

It's worth reminding you and the people who liked your inaccurate post that Cultural (Mis)appropriation =! Trans-Cultural Diffusion. Most of the time when people are asking "What's wrong with cultural appropriation?" and then describe this as a natural process of human history that amounts to a harmless exchanging of ideas, they are often describing the process of 'trans-cultural diffusion' rather than 'cultural appropriation.' They are not the same and pretending that they are the same is fallacious.

Aldarc as you well know not everyone identifies/defines things the same way or even places values on the same things. I have a friend who doesn't define himself by anyone culture or people, elevates science/facts/technology, places no value in religion and thinks anything within human history is fair game to be used within his fantasy elf game. What you or any sociologist define as cultural appropriation he'd define as human history accessible to all, sensitivities be nine-helled.

So fallacious is very much in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Doug McCrae]

"Shaman" and its derivatives do not appear in the 5e PHB. But shamanic* concepts do, in the barbarian and druid class entries, and the spell, Druidcraft.

"The Path of the Totem Warrior is a spiritual journey, as the barbarian accepts a spirit animal as guide, protector, and inspiration. In battle, your totem spirit fills you with supernatural might, adding magical fuel to your barbarian rage."

"Perhaps your [druid] character had a dramatic encounter with the spirits of nature, coming face to face with a giant eagle or dire wolf and surviving the experience."

"Whispering to the spirits of nature, you create one of the following effects"

Shamanism without shamans.

*"Shamanic" is here being used in a very broad sense, to include the popular understanding of indigenous magico-religious beliefs. The use of the word "totem" seems to have been similar to "shaman" and "mana" in that it's been greatly expanded and altered from its original meaning.

 

[TheSword]

Aldarc as you well know not everyone identifies/defines things the same way or even places values on the same things. I have a friend who doesn't define himself by anyone culture or people, elevates science/facts/technology, places no value in religion and thinks anything within human history is fair game to be used within his fantasy elf game. What you or any sociologist define as cultural appropriation he'd define as human history accessible to all, sensitivities be nine-helled.

The only danger with that approach is that just because they write it for their living room doesn’t mean it’s going to be published for anyone else’s living room. With that line of reasoning there could be all sorts of unpalatable stuff justified. No one wants to see the next Dark Sun campaign feature our plucky adventurers setting up their own slave triangle.

 

[Olrox17]

No one wants to see the next Dark Sun campaign feature our plucky adventurers setting up their own slave triangle.

Now wait a sec. I certainly wouldn't want a Dark Sun book to give us detailed rules for slave trading, specifically, but I wouldn't want the book to just pretend slavery doesn't exist in the setting, either. It's an evil thing evil villains do, and if the PCs are also evil, they might also engage in it, just like they would probably engage in assassinations, robbery and other evil stuff.

I know it's off topic and I don't want to derail the thread, but your assertion caught my eye.

 

[Sadras]

With that line of reasoning there could be all sorts of unpalatable stuff justified. No one wants to see the next Dark Sun campaign feature our plucky adventurers setting up their own slave triangle.

I suppose you could apply slavery to what I said about but I was referring to the use of Samurai, Wu-Jen, Shamans....and other.

Speaking about slavery, I do recall a thread here opening up discussion about how a slavery system would work or to that effect. So there certainly is interest for those who want to have it run in the background possibly to make a setting more authentic.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

"Shaman" and its derivatives do not appear in the 5e PHB. But shamanic* concepts do, in the barbarian and druid class entries, and the spell, Druidcraft.

"The Path of the Totem Warrior is a spiritual journey, as the barbarian accepts a spirit animal as guide, protector, and inspiration. In battle, your totem spirit fills you with supernatural might, adding magical fuel to your barbarian rage."

"Perhaps your [druid] character had a dramatic encounter with the spirits of nature, coming face to face with a giant eagle or dire wolf and surviving the experience."

"Whispering to the spirits of nature, you create one of the following effects"

Shamanism without shamans.

*"Shamanic" is here being used in a very broad sense, to include the popular understanding of indigenous magico-religious beliefs. The use of the word "totem" seems to have been similar to "shaman" and "mana" in that it's been greatly expanded and altered from its original meaning.

Yeah, I wish they should have used word 'shaman' or 'shamanistic' in some of those druid descriptions as that's clearly what it is. And the Totem Warrior is a clear example as well.

 

[Hussar]

Aldarc as you well know not everyone identifies/defines things the same way or even places values on the same things. I have a friend who doesn't define himself by anyone culture or people, elevates science/facts/technology, places no value in religion and thinks anything within human history is fair game to be used within his fantasy elf game. What you or any sociologist define as cultural appropriation he'd define as human history accessible to all, sensitivities be nine-helled.

So fallacious is very much in the eye of the beholder.

What someone wants to do in their own home is fine. No one is talking about that.

However, a product for public consumption is obviously a very different thing.

And, AGAIN, using Samurai, or Wu Jen, or whatever, is perfectly fine, IF it's done respectfully. Using Shaman is perfectly fine, if it's done respectfully. Heck, even having slavery in the game is probably fine, so long as it's presented as purely evil, something only evil bastards do and not really something heroic characters should be partaking in. OTOH, if the Dark Sun book simply lists, "Slave, healthy, 5 gp" without any other description, I'm thinking that perhaps that's not exactly going to fly.

 

[TheSword]

Now wait a sec. I certainly wouldn't want a Dark Sun book to give us detailed rules for slave trading, specifically, but I wouldn't want the book to just pretend slavery doesn't exist in the setting, either. It's an evil thing evil villains do, and if the PCs are also evil, they might also engage in it, just like they would probably engage in assassinations, robbery and other evil stuff.

I know it's off topic and I don't want to derail the thread, but your assertion caught my eye.

If you expect a WOC product for dark sun to support PCs setting up their own slave trade (evil or not) you are tripping. There is a big difference between something existing in the world and a product supporting creating it... to be clear this has happened in any edition of Dark Sun yet.

If you equate assassination with setting up a slave trade you need to go and do a lot of research on the subject.

 

[Olrox17]

If you expect a WOC product for dark sun to support PCs setting up their own slave trade (evil or not) you are tripping. There is a big difference between something existing in the world and a product supporting creating it... to be clear this has happened in any edition of Dark Sun yet.

If you equate assassination with setting up a slave trade you need to go and do a lot of research on the subject.

Don't strawman me, please.
I said "I certainly wouldn't want a Dark Sun book to give us detailed rules for slave trading, specifically, but I wouldn't want the book to just pretend slavery doesn't exist in the setting, either". Respond to this, not to a made up position.
To rephrase what I already expressed: I agree with not having any game mechanics for slave trade, if that's what you're suggesting.
I'm not ok with the word "slave" being banned from the book for sensitivity reasons, if that's what you're suggesting. Slavery exists in Dark Sun, it's an evil act to engage in it, only obviously evil PCs should ever really consider it. Kinda like mass murdering innocents.

Wether the murder of innocents (a typical very evil act that happens in D&D) is better or worse than slave trading, is extremely debatable, I think, and we probably shouldn't debate it at all.