Mana, Shamans, and the Cultural Misappropriation behind Fantasy Terms

[dragoner]

Not in my experience.

Admittedly, it may be more common in certain circles.

It's science, in fact there are physiological changes as people become less violent: Nova even has a good documentary about it called "The Violence Paradox".

Though it is simple to see that societies, forums, are based around cooperation vs conflict.

 

[Jd Smith1]

It's science, in fact there are physiological changes as people become less violent: Nova even has a good documentary about it called "The Violence Paradox".

Though it is simple to see that societies, forums, are based around cooperation vs conflict.

It's a theory. I've never seen any real support for it, and there is a vast amount of history and current events that disproves it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It's a theory. I've never seen any real support for it, and there is a vast amount of history and current events that disproves it.

Then you haven’t looked.

People can be trained out of their instincts, but most people don’t want to engage in any sort of real conflict.

 

[dragoner]

It's a theory. I've never seen any real support for it, and there is a vast amount of history and current events that disproves it.

It is a fact, and well supported, history and current events included. Even a simple glimpse at the other forum Morrus has, Circus Maximus, shows a much less active place.

Then you haven’t looked.

People can be trained out of their instincts, but most people don’t want to engage in any sort of real conflict.

Agreed. Conflict is more likely to lead to injury, thus less chance of survival. Plus there is greater safety in numbers; fighting only makes very limited sense. Even fundamental biology such as disease immunity supports the larger group vs isolates.

 

[Jd Smith1]

It is a fact, and well supported, history and current events included. Even a simple glimpse at the other forum Morrus has, Circus Maximus, shows a much less active place.

You're using a Net forum as a reference to violence?

 

[dragoner]

You're using a Net forum as a reference to violence?

So? It has perfect relevance.

 

[Jd Smith1]

So? It has perfect relevance.

You have lost all credibility with me. Lets go back to using traditional RPG/fantasy fiction being thoughtcrimes.

 

[Sacrosanct]

That's not the issue though.

The issue is that the words are being appropriated and then applied to pretty negative elements. @Doug McCrae in this post (adding link so people can see for themselves) Mana, Shamans, and the Cultural Misappropriation behind Fantasy Terms illustrates nicely that the only Monsters with Shaman's are primitives, savage and evil. I mean, why shouldn't elves have shaman? Wouldn't a shamanistic tradition fit best with elves? But, elves have clerics. And they certainly aren't depicted as primitive. So, obviously they can't have shamans because shamans only belong to evil, savage, primitives.

See how it becomes a problem?



Or, instead, people are capable of recognizing bigotry and racism, even if it's not specifically directed at them and have realized that the bigots and racists of the world depend on the silence of the majority in order to spread their brand of hatred. That regardless of who you are, what color you are, where you come from, when you see racism and bigotry, you call it out and bring it into the light where it squirms and dies.

OTOH, aren't you judging people by the color of their skin by claiming that they aren't allowed to call out bigotry that isn't directed at them? You don't know. Maybe their mother or father is a BIPOC, but, you can't tell by looking at them. Or their wives/husbands, children, friends, neighbours, are all people who ARE affected by racism and they're rather tired of being told that they have to sit off to the side and aren't allowed to have an opinion just because of the color of their skin.

Only, since at least 1990 (possibly earlier) in DnD, shamans are not all what you claim. They had good shamans now for 30 years in the game. So that argument falls completely flat.

Also, as someone whose hobby is bushcrafting, if you automatically assume and use primitive to = bad, that’s on you, and illustrates your bigotry. My older half brother, who has Nez Perce ancestry and engages in many old traditions, would probably call you a bigot to automatically associate his traditions as a bad thing simply because they are “primitive”. It’s you who is perpetuating negative stereotypes when you make those associations.

so yeah, we should call out bigotry when we see it. Like I just did to you. But if a white person calls out bigotry and the people who are the topic of it don’t see it, it’s a good bet it’s manufactured outrage. Stop trying to be such a white knight and look at how your own assumptions are making it worse and how they are the attitudes that spread stereotypes.

*edit. I am NOT saying there haven’t been racist depictions of shamans (and witch doctors especially) In frequency. I am saying the mere term and usage of the word shaman is not cultural appropriation or racist because unlike the argument you’re making, there have been plenty of positive depictions as well, and that word has an actual definition that is not racist or culturally appropriation. And people shouldn’t automatically feel bad like they are bigots for using it. It’s how it’s used that’s important.

 

[dragoner]

You have lost all credibility with me. Lets go back to using traditional RPG/fantasy fiction being thoughtcrimes.

I am afraid the science will still be true whether or not you believe in it.

 

[Olrox17]

Then you probably want to consider what you hope to get out of the conversation before you continue.

Tbh, I don't think I'll stick around this thread much. I've said my piece, I explained why I disagree with the OP, I really don't have much to add beyond that. Unless people start responding to me directly, of course.