Mana, Shamans, and the Cultural Misappropriation behind Fantasy Terms

[Umbran]

So here is a short 10 minute video from an educational YouTube series called Religion for Breakfast that discusses how the term "mana" entered into the lexicon of fantasy novels, tabletop roleplaying, and video games to mean "magic".

As others have noted, the existence of "manna" in the Old Testament makes this suggestion of single-source for the term... questionable.

 

[Aldarc]

As others have noted, the existence of "manna" in the Old Testament makes this suggestion of single-source for the term... questionable.

Old Testament “manna” doesn’t really have any conceptional links to fantasy concepts of “mana.” It’s more of a misattribution due to two similar sounding words.

Much as the video also points out, there is a direct lineage between the the anthropological usage of “mana” from Austronesian languages to Larry Niven to the earliest video games using mana listing Niven as a source.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Old Testament “manna” doesn’t really have any conceptional links to fantasy concepts of “mana".
It’s more of a misattribution due to two similar sounding words.

If people use a word for a specific meaning thinking it's related to an Hebrew concept and word, how can they be appropriating an Austronesian concept? They are appropriating and deforming a Hebrew concept (a daily gift from god of which you can't stockpile much => ok let's say it a fancy explanation for magic energy that replenishes over time and has a fixed maximum) and not the Austronesian concept of mana (which is not very close to the (J)RPG use of mana either). Would you be satisfied if they wrote it manna?


Since you're speaking of Euro-American misappropriation, it would be interesting to check if it's really European. I don't think the use of mana for "magical exhaustible force" has a lot of use outside US inspired computer games (there may be tabletop RPGs using mana, but I think the term is more widely used in computer/console games). The word entered the American lexicon with Larry Niven, but I am not sure it has entered non-English speaking european countries as well. For example, in French, mana (the original force) is a masculine word, while "mana" used in the pop culture term is a feminine word and is probably just lifted from the American usage. Though you might postulate that gamers are not educated enough to even know the existence of the masculine mana word, but in this case, they could'nt appropriate a concept they haven't heard of?

Would they? To the best of my knowledge, they do not identify as “paladins” or use the title “paladin” as part of their order’s offices.

Crusading orders are one of the main source of inspiration for the paladins, including the emphasis of religious dedication. The iconic representation are either Roland or the Crusading knights, as soon as it started (and the emphasis on "working in the palace" diminished in favor or "religious knights"). They may not title themselves as paladins, but are refered as such in litterature, from the 15th century up until the 20th century.

 

[Aldarc]

If people use a word for a specific meaning thinking it's related to an Hebrew concept and word, how can they be appropriating an Austronesian concept? They are appropriating and deforming a Hebrew concept (a daily gift from god of which you can't stockpile much => ok let's say it a fancy explanation for magic energy that replenishes over time and has a fixed maximum) and not the Austronesian concept of mana (which is not very close to the (J)RPG use of mana either). Would you be satisfied if they wrote it manna?

So you are asking me how a bunch of people who are largely ignorant of Austronesian languages and cultures when encountering the word 'mana' for the first time may have thought that a word that sounds and looks similar in spelling and pronunciation to a word from the hegemonic religious cultural context they are more familiar with was the likely source for a concept of magic that started appearing in their childhood fantasy novels and video games? It seems like the explanation largely writes itself. If you believe that there is a strong case for the conceptual history of "mana" as found in fantasy games has stronger or comparable links to "manna" in the Hebrew Bible, then I am all ears for your arguments and citations.

That said, I'm fairly certain that if you think you are borrowing your roommate's bike, but it actually belongs to your neighbor, it's still your neighbor's bike and it's still theft.

Since you're speaking of Euro-American misappropriation, it would be interesting to check if it's really European.

Robert Henry Codrington who first described "mana" was a 19th century English missionary and anthropologist. Ethnologist and cultural anthropologist Robert Marrett who further applied the sense of "mana" to other cultures was also English. Larry Niven reportedly learned of "mana" while reading The Trumpet Shall Sound by British social anthropologist Peter Worsley. Despite what either the French or English may believe, England is part of Europe. These are European scholars.

Or are you trying to suggest that it's not really European if the French aren't involved in misappropriating it too? Don't worry then, because I got you covered: French cultural sociologist and anthropologist (as well as Émile Durkheim's nephew) Marcel Mauss wrote about mana as a universal magical force in Esquisse d'une théorie générale de la magie. But could this be in reference to Biblical manna? Mauss cites Codrington, and he also references 'mana' in relation to Polynesian practices in Essai sur le don: forme et raison de l'échange dans les sociétés archaïques. His French Wikipedia page even says:

Il s'intéresse à la signification sociale du don dans les sociétés tribales, ainsi qu'au phénomène religieux : la magie est considérée comme un phénomène social qui peut notamment s'expliquer par la notion de mana.

Crappy translation:

He is interested in the social meaning of the gift in tribal societies, as well as in religious phenomenon: magic is considered as a social phenomenon which can be explained in particular by the notion of mana.

And if you click on the "mana" link in that quote:

Spoiler

It links to Polynesian notions of mana.

I don't think the use of mana for "magical exhaustible force" has a lot of use outside US inspired computer games (there may be tabletop RPGs using mana, but I think the term is more widely used in computer/console games). The word entered the American lexicon with Larry Niven, but I am not sure it has entered non-English speaking european countries as well.

I think that your sense of "mana" here and above demonstrates a fundamental lack of awareness about the conceptual history of the term. For the record, have you actually watched the linked video yet?

Crusading orders are one of the main source of inspiration for the paladins, including the emphasis of religious dedication. The iconic representation are either Roland or the Crusading knights, as soon as it started (and the emphasis on "working in the palace" diminished in favor or "religious knights"). They may not title themselves as paladins, but are refered as such in litterature, from the 15th century up until the 20th century.

Okay? If you want to argue that monastic orders of knights still exist or that paladins were influenced by crusaders, Knights of the Round Table, and La Chanson de Roland, then congratulations on winning a point in an argument that was never up for debate. But they are not paladins. There are no knightly orders to my knowledge, whether they are the Order of St John or Teutonic Order, that use the term "paladin" or label themselves as "paladins" whereas there are Tungustic peoples who still use the native term "shaman" for their spiritual leaders.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

So you are asking me how a bunch of people who are largely ignorant of Austronesian languages and cultures when encountering the word 'mana' for the first time may have thought that a word that sounds and looks similar in spelling and pronunciation to a word from the hegemonic religious cultural context they are more familiar with was the likely source for a concept of magic that started appearing in their childhood fantasy novels and video games? It seems like the explanation largely writes itself. If you believe that there is a strong case for the conceptual history of "mana" as found in fantasy games has stronger or comparable links to "manna" in the Hebrew Bible, then I am all ears for your arguments and citations.

Well, wrong/folk etymology abound. People couldn't appropriate a cultural content they don't even know exist. They just use a word to designate another reality, with no link with the Austronesian meaning. That Niven borrowed the word and was aware of the cultural link proves that he may be appropriating something, but after that, most people appropriated Niven's creative work and used mana in the sense he described, without any link to the polynesian word. They would have used xyzzy if Niven had called his magic like that.

That said, I'm fairly certain that if you think you are borrowing your roommate's bike, but it actually belongs to your neighbor, it's still your neighbor's bike and it's still theft.

Actually it's not (though you might want to check with your lawyer in your juridiction). Criminal offenses requires criminal intent.

Or are you trying to suggest that it's not really European if the French aren't involved in misappropriating it too? Don't worry then, because I got you covered: French cultural sociologist and anthropologist (as well as Émile Durkheim's nephew) Marcel Mauss wrote about mana as a universal magical force in Esquisse d'une théorie générale de la magie. But could this be in reference to Biblical manna? Mauss cites Codrington, and he also references 'mana' in relation to Polynesian practices in Essai sur le don: forme et raison de l'échange dans les sociétés archaïques. His French Wikipedia page even says:

These anthropologists were speaking of the masculine form of mana and trying to describe polynesian practices. As I pointed out, many games using mana in the pop culture sense use the feminine word mana. Despite being pop culture, it found its way into reference newspaper if you don't trust my word. The word is no longer the same, is it still appropriation despite being another word and describing another reality?

At what point does it stops being appropriation to you and starts simply being the natural evolution of the language? We're here speaking of people who don't use the exact same word and who don't know the original sense, but are simply taking it from English-speaking RPGs. It's starting to be very removed from the original term...

I think that your sense of "mana" here and above demonstrates a fundamental lack of awareness about the conceptual history of the term. For the record, have you actually watched the linked video yet?

I don't think you understand my point. But since the tone is no longer one of conversation, there is no point in me trying to express myslef more clearly.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Criminal offenses requires criminal intent.

Nope. Carelessness is enough, in most cases. If you do a thing without taking reasonable precautions to ensure it isn’t criminal, in a situation where a reasonable person could suspect that it’s criminal, and it ends in fact being criminal, you’ve committed a criminal act.

Like taking the bike in the side yard shared with your neighbor, that you assume is your room mates, without checking to make sure it is theirs. If it is your neighbors, and the report it stolen, and you’re caught with it, you’ve stolen their bike.

 

[Aldarc]

Well, wrong/folk etymology abound. People couldn't appropriate a cultural content they don't even know exist. They just use a word to designate another reality, with no link with the Austronesian meaning. That Niven borrowed the word and was aware of the cultural link proves that he may be appropriating something, but after that, most people appropriated Niven's creative work and used mana in the sense he described, without any link to the polynesian word. They would have used xyzzy if Niven had called his magic like that.

Yeah, they can. Niven knew the original context, but would his readers? Would the people making video games and Magic: The Gathering know the original cultural context if they just liked "mana" in Larry Niven's work? That's often how cultural appropriation happens. It's often a cultural concept/thing that gets stripped of its original cultural context and disseminated into vogue by the hegemonic culture, albeit not as understood in the original context.

These anthropologists were speaking of the masculine form of mana and trying to describe polynesian practices. As I pointed out, many games using mana in the pop culture sense use the feminine word mana. Despite being pop culture, it found its way into reference newspaper if you don't trust my word. The word is no longer the same, is it still appropriation despite being another word and describing another reality?

Is this really the argument that you wanna go with? The fact that despite mana having a clear link of transmission between Oceanic cultures to European anthropologists to Larry Niven to video games and Magic: The Gathering that the term "mana" as per pop culture could not have been appropriated from Oceanic cultures because French has a feminine and masculine use for "mana"?

At what point does it stops being appropriation to you and starts simply being the natural evolution of the language? We're here speaking of people who don't use the exact same word and who don't know the original sense, but are simply taking it from English-speaking RPGs. It's starting to be very removed from the original term...

This is a discussion point for the thread that would be nice to discuss if I wasn't having to argue about the origins and conceptual history of the term "mana."

I don't think you understand my point. But since the tone is no longer one of conversation, there is no point in me trying to express myslef more clearly.

So what you are saying is that you didn't watch the link and can't really provide any contrary evidence other than gender?

 

[Doug McCrae]

And often its use comes with the implicit judgment of Western superiority wherein "shaman" is applied to the spiritual leaders of "primitive" cultures. (I suspect that most fantasy depictions of "shamans" will probably have them as "primitives" wearing bones, feathers, fur, and other trappings, no?)

This is true of its usage in D&D.

In 5e, stone giants, lizardfolk, and quaggoths have shamans. The stone giant in the MM wears animal skins and wields a club. They also fight with thrown rocks. Lizardfolk are "primitive reptilian humanoids" with INT 7. They use simple weapons such as clubs. "Though they aren't skilled artisans, lizardfolk craft tools and ornamental jewelry out of the bones of their kills, and they use the hides and shells of dead monsters to create shields." "[T]hey have a taste for humanoid flesh", devouring their victims in "great feasts" if they’re not "sacrificed to Semuanya, the lizardfolk god." Quaggoths, INT 6, are "brutal and savage", were "never an enlightened species", and practise cannibalism. They do not use weapons but attack with their claws.

In 1e AD&D shamans are one type of "tribal caster", the other being the witch doctor. Shamans are like clerics but have a much more limited spell selection. They are never human but are found among bugbears, ettins, giants (hill, fire, frost, stone), gnolls, goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds, lizard men, ogres, orcs, troglodytes, and trolls. Only two of these, stone giants and hobgoblins, have average intelligence (8-10). The rest are lower, and many - ettins, hill giants, 90% of lizard men, ogres, trolls, and troglodytes - are of low intelligence (5-7). For comparison, gorillas and whales also have low intelligence.

Ettins wear "animal skin dress". Hill giants "typically dress in rough hides or skins". Gnoll "armor is of horn, metal plates, and leather". Goblins "dress in dark leather gear". "All kobold shields are of wood or wickerwork." The lizard man is depicted wearing only a skull and tooth necklace. "Ogres wear any sort of skins or furs." Trolls wear no clothing. The troglodyte is depicted in only a harness.

 

[Aldarc]

Here is a book that talks about the history of Western scholarly discourse of the Oceanic concept of "mana" and how it was disseminated into pop culture: Mana: A History of a Western Category by Nicolas Meylan.

Here is a more detailed article that discusses the history of the Oceanic concept "mana" as it transmitted into fantasy lexicon via cultural anthropologists and fantasy writers. If you are worried that it will just bash the use of "mana" in pop culture, be rest assured because this is its concluding paragraph:

For Pacific Islanders, the history of mana is important because it is about them: their lives and their heritage. To video game players it is important, and for pretty much the same reasons. Once an import, mana has now become part of our culture. Some might be tempted to read the story of mana as a tale of cultural appropriation in which Westerners ransack the culture of the colonized. They may be right. Missionaries, anthropologists, and historians put mana between the pages of their books and stored it in libraries all over the world. But gamers did something else with it: They cared for it. They made fantasy games and imaginary worlds, and came to love what they had created. They put mana into play, making it part of their lives, dragging it into their histories and self-understandings. They spent hours optimizing their healing spells and living the lives of draenei shamans. Gaming became part of who they were, and mana became part of their heritage. Did they borrow it? Yes. Did they exoticize it? Perhaps. But by playing with it, they honored it. The world is full of stories like the story of mana, stories whose paths across cultures and through time are rarely fully recorded. But these stories matter to us, because their histories are part of our lives. Like mana, they lay in the background until—click—someone shines a light on them and we see the power they truly possess.

The author, Alex Golub, also writes in his acknowledgments:

Many people helped with this article. I’d like to thank Jon Peterson, my coauthor on the academic version of this paper, for his scrupulous reading of this paper. I’d also like to thanks Steve Perrin and Larry Niven for answering my questions about their work and career. Professor Robert Blust, the Reverend Terry Brown, and Michael Craddock reviewed the manuscript to make sure I got all my facts straight. Any errors are my own.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

So what you are saying is that you didn't watch the link and can't really provide any contrary evidence other than gender?

If I hadn't seen the video (which didn't teach anything new, except it confirmed that Niven was aware of the Polynesian meaning of the term and didn't coin it from scratch), I wouldn't know that the youtube-generated subtitle use "manna" and "mana" both which is hilarious given the context of this "discussion". AI still has some way to transliterate human speech.