Mandating multiclassing for spellcasters

[Magesmiley]

I'd have to concur that this might make for a very interesting low magic variant. As was already mentioned, magic items whose feats require a particular caster level should be significantly rarer than in a normal game.

I suspect that buff spells will see more use than usual - buffs which are several levels behind one's best spells are often still quite effective. Spells which rely on damage for their effect will likely not be as popular as their effectiveness is considerably diminished.

Assuming that this rule holds true for NPCs as well as PCs, it will have a considerable affect on your selection for opponents who produce magic as well. If you are looking for a magical opponent, you are likely to need to use ones who have inherent abilities rather than a high-level spellcaster.

 

[irdeggman]

This discussion probably should be moved to the house-rules forum. You are likely to get more meaningful feedback there.

 

[Mistwell]

Why make such a clunky system when you could just go buy Iron Heros and do it right?

 

[jcfiala]

You'll probably see less of a reliance on spells that require a saving throw (fireball, lightning bolt, hold person), and probably more on touch or ranged touch attacks, since wizard/sorcs/clerics/druids are going to have higher BAB than a plain class normally would. Self-buffs would probably be even more popular, even if they're not going to last as long, I think.

 

[IndyPendant]

I understand why you want to do this, and I even agree to an extent--I hate 3.5e magic at high levels myself. However, I would suggest using one of three (largely mutually exclusive) alternatives instead:

1) Take a look at Arcana Evolved's wonderful magical system. It plugs many (note: NOT all!) of the overpowered problems of 3.5e magic. If you still don't want to allow full caster progression, consider banning the Magister and Greenbond. That still gives caster wannabe's plenty of very viable options (Mageblade, Runethane, Witch, and arguably Ritual Warrior) for Nifty Magical Abilities, without full spellcasting problems.

2) As someone else already mentioned, take a look at Iron Heroes for a really good setting and system where spellcasting truly does take a back seat. I like it very much, and I strongly suspect my next campaign will be set there.

3) 3.5e is really a broken system at the higher levels; casters almost always outshine noncasters by a huge margin. Limiting spellcaster levels to 1/2 character level is a last-ditch fix that doesn't really solve the core problem--the spells themselves. If you must stay with 3.5e however, I would definitely *very strongly* suggest allowing caster levels to progress at full rate and not 1/2. (Perhaps to a maximum of 2xspellcasting class level, to keep an 8 Ftr/1 Sorc from getting 5 magic missiles per casting, for example--although I personally do not believe that is a necessary additional limitation.)

 

[Agent Oracle]

Well, let's see... You completely nerf 90% of spells that offer saving throws. SInce saving throw is based largely off of spell level, it becomes progressively easier for people to just ignore all spell effects.

And at highest level (20th) a player who has gone the dedicated path, and survived wizard / whatever, for 20 long, stressful levels, will be able to proudly throw around a Chain Lightning spell, and one quickened first level spell each round. Which even a Barbarian can dodge with a DC of 15+INT, while fighters who went the straight route will be getting 4 attacks (possibly as many as 5, 6 or more if they went the TWF path) with a chance to crit on each one, and their strength bonus tagged on to each one, AND the ability to do attacks of opportunity against spellcasters... there's really no reason at all to play as a caster in your game world.

 

[Quartz]

You're missing the 5/5 restriction, after which the spellcaster can progress normally: with the 5/5 restriction, a 20th level character could be Rog 2 / Pal 3 / Wiz 15. That's 8th level spells available.

As noted in the OP, I'm also thinking about 4/4 and 3/3. With the latter, a wizard would still have 9th level spells available at 20th level, if that's what worries you.

I do see Practiced Spellcaster as an almost automatic feat; I also see wizards becoming specialists - I may go a Dragonlance style route with that and mandate it.

The point about paladins and rangers is an interesting one, but a 10th level paladin, with only 2 spells, is still going to be a lesser spellcaster than a 5th level cleric / 5 other levels, even without Practiced Spellcaster. And what if the paladin had to multiclass similarly?

 

[Mistwell]

You could also just make wizards, sorcerors, clerics, and druids into prestige classes.

I still think your whole approach is messy and an unecessary reinvention of the wheel. Monte Cook already did all the work necessary to fix your problems, with both Arcana Evolved and Iron Heros.

 

[el-remmen]

I don't think it is messy at all and is rather simple to implement and rather elegant and doesn't require a new rule set - and as long as the encounters are tailored to keep these restrictions in mind (and I don't see why they wouldn't or couldn't be), it would rock.

I like it a lot. I wish I had thought of it a few years ago.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't think it is messy at all and is rather simple to implement and rather elegant and doesn't require a new rule set - and as long as the encounters are tailored to keep these restrictions in mind (and I don't see why they wouldn't or couldn't be), it would rock.

I like it a lot. I wish I had thought of it a few years ago.

It's messy because it requires retooling virtually every encounter, hundreds of trap types, and even some plot devices. I think if you really think it through, you will find it seriously impacts the way a DM has to plan out an adventure. Encounter CRs assume access to a certain level of spells, and that CR will be thrown off by this change.

Again, trust in people like Monte Cook who really sat down and thought this issue through. A change like this might seem simple, but it changes fundamental ways that D&D works.