Manual of the Planes Revealed Over on RPG.net

[Hellzon]

Looking at the Manual of the Planes ToC, I am exceedingly angry.

I didn't want "The Big Sites of Interest like cities", I wanted little unique sites that aren't very big, but are great adventure sites.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Nerd point if you get the reference.

 

[Shemeska]

I'm looking for less. It's silly to think there's none.

Also, I don't hate everything in Planescape, by far. I think it's a setting of its time, though, and I never wanted to take the time to learn all the various lore (much like 3e FR). It was way too much baggage for me to leverage into a workable game - especially when, deep in my heart, I've been a fan of 1e's inherently hostile planes.

-O

Which strikes me as odd that you're hyped up over the 4e MotP but disliked Planescape. Planescape's take on the planes opened them up for lower level PCs, but it didn't remove the inherent hostility of those planes. You still spontaneously incinerated in Positive Energy, you'd still be killed for waltzing into the Abyss 99% of the time, etc. The planes were terribly hostile, especially the lower ones, and the setting specifically acknowledged that and expected players to know their limits per that survivability, or to approach those risks as intelligently as possible to allow them to survive. There was even a line in the box set that said something to the effect of "If your players are in Gehenna, running from a pack of yugoloths screaming for their heads, they're approaching things rather wrong."

4e on the other hand seems to go about the planes by making it a place for PCs to adventure* but also removing much of that hostility because it was an impediment to adventuring. You can't kill monsters in the dungeon if the dungeon is going to incinerate or drown you just by its very environment, etc. They're taking a hand-holding approach to the planes, which to my mind, is even worse for someone like you who appreciated the 1e planes which were very much a high level only playground (as I read into its presentation).

*(perhaps focused a bit too much on adventurability beyond making a realistic setting, but for another topic another time...)

 

[Obryn]

Which strikes me as odd that you're hyped up over the 4e MotP but disliked Planescape.

....

4e on the other hand seems to go about the planes by making it a place for PCs to adventure* but also removing much of that hostility because it was an impediment to adventuring. You can't kill monsters in the dungeon if the dungeon is going to incinerate or drown you just by its very environment, etc. They're taking a hand-holding approach to the planes, which to my mind, is even worse for someone like you who appreciated the 1e planes which were very much a high level only playground (as I read into its presentation).

No, I'm not actually hyped up about them Cosmology has always been one of my last concerns for a game setting. In fact, all the previews relating to cosmology almost turned me off of 4e - not because I didn't like it, but because I simply didn't care.

Now that I've seen 4e in action, I actually would like more info on the Feywild and Shadowfell. The rest of it, I'm indifferent to. Still, the 4e MoP may change my mind, and I'm willing to give it the chance.

-O

 

[Prism]

I hope it isn't much like the one previewed then, because that was quite a long way from the original conception

Were you chuffed when he got such a cool role in the cartoon?

 

[justanobody]

Sorry, couldn't resist. Nerd point if you get the reference.

A Civilization or Sim City game?

 

[F5]

Were you chuffed when he got such a cool role in the cartoon?

As an unrelated aside...this. Is. Awesome.

My daughter is a huge fan of the D&D cartoon. Each new D&D book that I get, her first question is; "Is Venger in this one!?" If I can tell her the Shadow Demon is in Daddy's New Book, that'll be almost as good...

As for the planes being less lethal...I don't see it as them making the planes less deadly, overall. It looks to me like they're trying to make them deadly, but in more entertaining ways. No more insta-kill trap-planes. No more "You step through the portal? Take 100d6 damage from the fireball. You die."

I also like the amount of Planescape references, but lack of overt planescape content. You can retrofit a lot of old planescape material to the new setting, but you're not shoehorned into it if you don't want Planescape in your 4E. I think the reason that they're still dipping into the Planescape well after 10 years is that they haven't come up with anything better. I had hoped that the new MotP would be that Something Better, or the start of it at least, but I'm OK with the fact that it' doesn't seem to be.

 

[Hellzon]

A Civilization or Sim City game?

SimCity 2000. The transit advisor will flip out in allcaps if you reduce funding to his department. That picture is photoshopped, but he's just as ridiculous in the real dialogue boxes.

(Pardon me for not commenting on MOTP, but it's my favourite book for any edition and I'd buy it if it was printed on toilet paper. So there.)

 

[Rechan]

No, I'm not actually hyped up about them Cosmology has always been one of my last concerns for a game setting. In fact, all the previews relating to cosmology almost turned me off of 4e - not because I didn't like it, but because I simply didn't care.

Now that I've seen 4e in action, I actually would like more info on the Feywild and Shadowfell. The rest of it, I'm indifferent to. Still, the 4e MoP may change my mind, and I'm willing to give it the chance.

-O

This.

I think Faerie Realm/Realm of Shadowy spooky (isntead of NEGATIVE ENERGY SUCKS YOUR SOUL DIE) is really intriguing. Also, Elemental chaos is very trippy. Vertical rivers of ice and fiery windstorms and floating rocks and stuff.

 

[JustKim]

SimCity 2000. The transit advisor will flip out in allcaps if you reduce funding to his department. That picture is photoshopped, but he's just as ridiculous in the real dialogue boxes.

(Pardon me for not commenting on MOTP, but it's my favourite book for any edition and I'd buy it if it was printed on toilet paper. So there.)

I'll do you one better for that nerd point.

The Simcity Board of Advisors

 

[Sir Brennen]

Which strikes me as odd that you're hyped up over the 4e MotP but disliked Planescape. Planescape's take on the planes opened them up for lower level PCs, but it didn't remove the inherent hostility of those planes.

Read post response again. It's not the presentation of the planes - it's all the other minutia regarding factions, cities, historical events and persons, etc. which can cramp a DM's style, or just feel like a chore to get up to speed on, much like running a FR game, as Obryn said. Not that it does for everyone, but for some, it does (one reason I never got into PS myself.)

You still spontaneously incinerated in Positive Energy, you'd still be killed for waltzing into the Abyss 99% of the time, etc. The planes were terribly hostile, especially the lower ones, and the setting specifically acknowledged that and expected players to know their limits per that survivability, or to approach those risks as intelligently as possible to allow them to survive.

One thing about PS, though... it presented the Planes as frequently hostile because that's how the current edition had already presented them. PS was, in effect, constrained by those previous presentations, and simply delved into them in more detail.

4e on the other hand seems to go about the planes by making it a place for PCs to adventure* but also removing much of that hostility because it was an impediment to adventuring. You can't kill monsters in the dungeon if the dungeon is going to incinerate or drown you just by its very environment, etc. They're taking a hand-holding approach to the planes, which to my mind, is even worse for someone like you who appreciated the 1e planes which were very much a high level only playground (as I read into its presentation).

Most of the planes are still very much still intended for higher levels in 4E as well. Creatures are certainly still powerful and hostile in the Abyss and Nine Hells. I see plenty of high level elementals for the Elemental Chaos.

I'm just glad it's no longer possible to have a TPK on the Elemental Plane of Fire with just a simple Dispel Magic...