Marked targets knowing about Combat Challenge

[Chen_93]

(Forked from Defenders aren't very good at defending?)

Just a note, while a monster marked by a paladin knows he will take radiant damage if he attacks someone else (part of the divine challenge power), a monster marked by a fighter knows NOTHING except that he is marked (at least until the fighter has hit him, or an ally who conveys said information, with a combat challenge attack). It is logical for an intelligent monster to attack a less armored foe if he knows it'll overall be easier to hit. After getting whacked the first time though, there is a significant incentive to attack the fighter that marked you.

 

[timmy]

a monster marked by a fighter knows NOTHING except that he is marked (at least until the fighter has hit him, or an ally who conveys said information, with a combat challenge attack).

I would disagree with this statement. According to page 57 of the PHB in the "Attack" section, "Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you've done to it and what conditions you've imposed."

Therefore the creature will know that it's marked by the fighter and will know that shifting or attacking something else will result in a melee basic attack, and that it's own attack will be at -2.

 

[Chen_93]

I would disagree with this statement. According to page 57 of the PHB in the "Attack" section, "Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you've done to it and what conditions you've imposed."

Therefore the creature will know that it's marked by the fighter and will know that shifting or attacking something else will result in a melee basic attack, and that it's own attack will be at -2.

Well it knows its marked (that is a condition it is under). No power that I used tells the creature I have the combat challenge class feature. It just knows its marked. Now once it sees me hit it after it shifts or attacks someone other than me it can infer this was due to it being marked and doing whatever it did. In fact it can infer that I have some ability to mark things as well since this does not necessarily come from the power (some powers mark some do not and you need to rely on combat challenge to mark).

Now you could rule that a creature that likely encountered fighters before would know such things, but strictly by RAW the creature does not know what happens if it shifts/attacks someone other than you, except that they get a -2 penalty to it due to being marked.

 

[Cadfan]

I think "will be attacked if it shifts or attacks someone other than you" counts as a "condition" for the purposes of the page 57 statement.

The only plausible argument against counting it as a condition would be to try to argue that "condition" only covers things with snappy names like "marked" or "dazed," but that argument doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense in the overall context of the game. I'm pretty sure that "condition" isn't a defined term.

 

[James McMurray]

There have been tons of threads about monsters knowing about combat challenge already. Any chance of bumping (or starting) one of those rather than derailing a thread about defenders?

 

[Kurotowa]

Just a note, while a monster marked by a paladin knows he will take radiant damage if he attacks someone else (part of the divine challenge power), a monster marked by a fighter knows NOTHING except that he is marked (at least until the fighter has hit him, or an ally who conveys said information, with a combat challenge attack).

Are you sure about that? I could have sworn that a marked target always knows the nature of the mark. But I'm having trouble finding anything that spells it out one way or the other. Anyone?

 

[James McMurray]

Are you sure about that? I could have sworn that a marked target always knows the nature of the mark. But I'm having trouble finding anything that spells it out one way or the other. Anyone?

There have been tons of threads about monsters knowing about combat challenge already. Any chance of bumping (or starting) one of those rather than derailing a thread about defenders?

 

[Nail]

Just a note, while a monster marked by a paladin knows he will take radiant damage if he attacks someone else (part of the divine challenge power), a monster marked by a fighter knows NOTHING except that he is marked ....

That's not true.

If a Ftr marks an enemy, the enemy knows what will happen if he attacks someone else, or if he shifts, etc.

 

[Caliban]

That's not true.

If a Ftr marks an enemy, the enemy knows what will happen if he attacks someone else, or if he shifts, etc.

You know what conditions you have, and you know the effects of powers that are used on you.

However, the fighter's Combat Challenge isn't a power, it's a class feature (unlike the paladin's Divine Challenge, which is a power as well as a class feature). It's something the fighter can do if you are marked, not an effect he puts on you as a result of being marked.

 

[Cadfan]

Caliban- is there an official definition of "condition?"