marshal prc?

[Scion]

Now the marshal is a great class, but someone I am playing with wishes to do more with the auras as they go up. So I was playing around with making a prc for them.

The things I want in it is the following:

More minor auras at once and bigger bonuses faster.
Along with bonuses to the minor auras.


I was thinking about cutting the BAB down to poor, cutting the hd down to a d6 and giving them an extra good reflex save. keep the skills the same, and then work through some sort of progression. Anyone care to try?

Edit: I posted this below, but just in case people come in I would like some comments on this rather than the discussion about prc's in general

how about this as a general, and only preliminary, writeup:
HD: d6
BAB: poor
Saves: F: Good, R: Good, W: Good

Req: 1 minor and 1 major aura, skill focus(perform)(any), perform 8 ranks, must speak at least 10 languages

Class skills: same as marshal
skill points: 4+int mod/level

Weapon and armor prof: nothing new

1: Minor aura boost (+1)
2: Inspire animal, Expanded aura
3: Major aura boost (+1)
4: Extra minor aura active
5: Minor aura boost (+2), major aura boost (+2)
6: Radiate courage
7: Minor aura boost (+3), major aura boost (+3)
8: Inpire excellence
9: Minor aura boost (+4), major aura boost (+4)
10: Extra major aura active, Minor aura boost (+5), major aura boost (+5)


Minor aura boost: all minor auras gain this bonus in addition to all other bonuses it may get.

Inspire animal: animals also gain the benefit of any auras this character has active if he so desires.

Expanded aura: Aura radius is expanded by 50%.

Major aura boost: all major auras gain this bonus in addition to all other bonuses it may get.

Extra minor aura active: the character may have two seperate auras going at the same time (in addition to a major aura).

Radiate courage: immune to fear and fear like effects, all allies which are effected by any of this characters auras also gets a +4 morale bonus vs fear.

Inspire excellence: A number of times per day equal to his charisma bonus this character may inspire excellence in all those effected by his aura. He must expend a full round action, at the end of which everyone, including himself, has a +2 perfection bonus to saving throws, attack rolls, damage rolls, and skill checks. This bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to the characters charisma modifier. If a creature no longer gains the benefits from any auras then the bonus is lost. No character may recieve this bonus more than once an any given hour.

Extra major aura active: the character may have two seperate major auras going at the same time (in addition to minor auras).



I know it isnt very well balanced, and it is pretty heavy at the end. But by that time they are really hurting from a serious lack of choices in auras (3 minor and 2 major vs 7 minor and 4 major) along with having given up the extra move actions (which are a huge boon by the way). So while it isnt well balanced any suggestions, helpful ones , would be most appreciated.

 

[Scion]

no luck?

 

[Silveras]

You are not really asking for a PrC, you are asking for a variant of the base class. Something with lower HD and more auras is less a PrC than just a modified version of the Marshall.

Generally, PrCs are not designed with only one base class being able to enter them. Many (though certainly not all) combat-heavy PrCs, for example, can be entered even by a Wizard eventually. A better example, though, is that Barbarians, Paladins, and Rangers can also qualify for "Fighter" PrCs, or that some Wizards can qualify for "Cleric" PrCs.

A PrC that would be ideal for a Marshall, but which would still be a "good" PrC design, would not just add more auras, but would instead have the aura ability and would stack its levels with other classes that did the same -- much the way spellcasting classes do, or classes the grant Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge. In that case, it might increase the aura bonuses faster than the Marshall base class -- which would be good for non-Marshalls who entered the class as well as Marshalls. Rather than simply letting the Marshall have "more auras" active, a good PrC would (IMHO) allow a specific aura to be active in addition to the one the Marshall chooses. For example, a "Master Tactician" PrC might allow one aura that boosts flanking bonuses to remain active constantly in addition to any other auras.

Hope that helps.

 

[Scion]

Many prc's require being able to turn undead, or cast spells of a certain type or of a certain level, or have sneak attack as a prereq. That is exactly the same as what I am doing here

You need to have auras to enter, currently the only class to have auras is the marshal so to make it easy I called it a marshal prc. Much like someone could call a prc that required having +6d6 sneak attack a rogue prc. Sure there might be other ways to get into it now, but someday there might be othe ways to get into this prc as well.

While I know what you are trying to say about stacking with the marshal levels, prc's are mainly supposed to be about focusing on a concept. You give up something to become better at something else. So if they still got all of their auras, plus they got much better at them and more versitile what exactly are they giving up?

 

[Silveras]

Many prc's require being able to turn undead, or cast spells of a certain type or of a certain level, or have sneak attack as a prereq. That is exactly the same as what I am doing here

However, both Paladins and Clerics can qualify for classes that require Turn Undead. Sorcerers, Wizards, and Bards can qualify for the ones that require arcane casting. Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers can meet the divine spellcasting requirements for many PrCs (though at different levels). Only the Sneak Attack is really directly appropriate for comparison, as it is something no other base class has access to. Typically, such classes do not require +6d6, they might require +2d6, as they also encourage multi-classing (most of them).

Making a PrC that encouraged or required multi-classing with the Marshall to meet its requirements is fine. The tone of your initial post, though, sounded like you wanted a PrC that was a "super Marshall".

You need to have auras to enter, currently the only class to have auras is the marshal so to make it easy I called it a marshal prc. Much like someone could call a prc that required having +6d6 sneak attack a rogue prc. Sure there might be other ways to get into it now, but someday there might be othe ways to get into this prc as well.

Ok.. then I think you are going about it backwards. You started with some general mechanics and are asking for a theme to justify them. I work the other way: I decide on what the PrC is supposed to be/do/represent thematically, then I decide what mechanics best flesh that out.

While I know what you are trying to say about stacking with the marshal levels, prc's are mainly supposed to be about focusing on a concept. You give up something to become better at something else. So if they still got all of their auras, plus they got much better at them and more versitile what exactly are they giving up?

Granted... That's why it helps to start from the theme. With the theme, you know what mechanics to keep and/or enhance, and which ones to reduce or remove as part of the balance. Boosting auras is tricky, as they are probably 65% of the class' definings characteristics. Boosting only the Minor auras at the expense of delaying getting Major ones might be reasonable; boosting the Major aura at the expense of the Minor one might also be reasonable. Boosting both slightly, at the expense of the MEA progression, might also be reasonable.

I keep saying "might" because I'd need to spend some time looking at it in depth to decide if the alterations looked balanced to me.

Sadly, the Marshall is not open content, so I can't get much more detailed than that.

 

[Scion]

However, both Paladins and Clerics can qualify for classes that require Turn Undead. Sorcerers, Wizards, and Bards can qualify for the ones that require arcane casting. Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers can meet the divine spellcasting requirements for many PrCs (though at different levels). Only the Sneak Attack is really directly appropriate for comparison, as it is something no other base class has access to. Typically, such classes do not require +6d6, they might require +2d6, as they also encourage multi-classing (most of them).

It doesnt matter if there is a small list or a big list of people that could qualify for the prc. The fact that it is restricted to some class feature is perfectly acceptable. Just because only a very few classes have such a feature does not matter in any way.

Is it possible for other prc's/classes/feats to grant the auras? yes. Do they yet? probably not, but that is a big 'yet'. The only core non-prc that grants sneak attack is the rogue. If it requires 2d6 sneak attack then that prc is only for rogues. That is exactly the same limitation, but for some reason you are ok with the 2d6 but not with needing an aura. Very strange. Turning is the same way, there are two classes that can turn, so a prc that requires turning you have to be one of them, but you dont have a problem with that either. Again, very strange. Or if a prc requires a certain domain (which happens) then only the cleric can take it. Again you have no problem with this.

Needing the auras is no different from the other examples.

Making a PrC that encouraged or required multi-classing with the Marshall to meet its requirements is fine. The tone of your initial post, though, sounded like you wanted a PrC that was a "super Marshall".

Super marshall? I just reread my post and see nothing like that. I want him to specialize in auras. He doesnt get new ones, he simply becomes much better at the ones he has. He gives up the move action, he loses a hd placement, he gives up BAB all in the hopes of becoming much better at the auras.

This is the same sort of way many prc's are made. 'I want to be better at X and who cares about the rest'.

You started with some general mechanics and are asking for a theme to justify them.

The theme is 'better at auras, stronger auras'. You may work it anyway you wish, mechanics and 'themes' are effectively the exact same thing with slightly different wordings.


As for the rest though, he is giving up something, that is the point.

He wants to specialize in auras. That is what the first sentence said. That is the theme, 'I could do these other things, but instead I am going to become really good at the auras I already have'. I think that you would be very hard pressed to pick out a prc that does not do effectively the exact same thing. They all grant bonuses in some area.

Still though, I was hopeing for some help and ideas about doing such. Nothing in that would break any laws. We are free on here to discuss various issues with a lot of things. Plus, it is just as easy to come up with a new ability like, 'once per day this guy may apply his aura ability onto another character, until a number of rounds equal to your charisma bonus that other character may use that aura. While in effect you may not use that aura, but may use another instead.'

That does nothing to break any laws, and might even be interesting. Sometimes people come through here and try to give helpful hints and tips, I do it on occasion myself. Mainly I just wanted a few opinions on how to go about it.

 

[Enkhidu]

Here's a few ideas -

Aura Specialization - bonus on minor aura/major aura equal to either an everincreasing number tied to level increases, or to the character's Wisdom or Intelligence bonus. One or two choice auras by the end of the PrC

Expanded Auras - double range (a certain # of times per day)

Lasting Auras - usually, only 1 minor and 1 major aura can be up at a time - once per day per so many levels, the marshall can create a lasting aura - aura must be up for at least one round, and it takes a standard action to make it lasting - lasts for 1 rond per marshall level - only one lasting aura up at a time, but total of up to 4 auras with this power (2 minor, 2 major).

None of these are checked for balance, but are simply some ideas.

 

[Scion]

Some interesting ideas enkhidu thanks


how about this as a general, and only preliminary, writeup:
HD: d6
BAB: poor
Saves: F: Good, R: Good, W: Good

Req: 1 minor and 1 major aura, skill focus(perform)(any), perform 8 ranks, must speak at least 10 languages

Class skills: same as marshal
skill points: 4+int mod/level

Weapon and armor prof: nothing new

1: Minor aura boost (+1)
2: Inspire animal, Expanded aura
3: Major aura boost (+1)
4: Extra minor aura active
5: Minor aura boost (+2), major aura boost (+2)
6: Radiate courage
7: Minor aura boost (+3), major aura boost (+3)
8: Inpire excellence
9: Minor aura boost (+4), major aura boost (+4)
10: Extra major aura active, Minor aura boost (+5), major aura boost (+5)


Minor aura boost: all minor auras gain this bonus in addition to all other bonuses it may get.

Inspire animal: animals also gain the benefit of any auras this character has active if he so desires.

Expanded aura: Aura radius is expanded by 50%.

Major aura boost: all major auras gain this bonus in addition to all other bonuses it may get.

Extra minor aura active: the character may have two seperate auras going at the same time (in addition to a major aura).

Radiate courage: immune to fear and fear like effects, all allies which are effected by any of this characters auras also gets a +4 morale bonus vs fear.

Inspire excellence: A number of times per day equal to his charisma bonus this character may inspire excellence in all those effected by his aura. He must expend a full round action, at the end of which everyone, including himself, has a +2 perfection bonus to saving throws, attack rolls, damage rolls, and skill checks. This bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to the characters charisma modifier. If a creature no longer gains the benefits from any auras then the bonus is lost. No character may recieve this bonus more than once an any given hour.

Extra major aura active: the character may have two seperate major auras going at the same time (in addition to minor auras).



I know it isnt very well balanced, and it is pretty heavy at the end. But by that time they are really hurting from a serious lack of choices in auras (3 minor and 2 major vs 7 minor and 4 major) along with having given up the extra move actions (which are a huge boon by the way). So while it isnt well balanced any suggestions, helpful ones , would be most appreciated.

 

[Scion]

Anything that should be added or taken away? Other ideas?