Martial Arts-Why isn't there a class for Martial Artists

[Jakathi]

i'm a goober

i see the answer to my question right in front of me.
the answer. no not alignment based. lol
sowwy

 

[woodelf]

Making a "Martial Artist" core class is filled with design problems:
[snip]
2> D&D "game balance" is predicated on equipment. This is a much more subtle point, but it keeps coming back to kick people. You see, Paladins and Barbarians are supposedly balanced against Wizards, Clerics, and Druids based on the concept that they have equipment. Magic Swords, Magic Pants, the whole thing. If characters don't have this sort of equipment, the warriors can pretty much go home while the druid doesn't even really notice. So a "martial artist" has to be balanced against a "knight" when the knight has a magic sword. Because if the game is balanced right now - the knight does have a magic sword.

So it's another damned if you do, damned if you don't design problem. If you write your Martial Artist so that he is actually balanced against a knight in shining armor with a magic sword - the class is unbalanced as he's just like the knight except he doesn't need the magic sword. But if you design the Martial Artist so that he is in any meaningful way weaker than the knight in shining armor with the magic sword - you've created a class which is ass, as in reality the knight in fact does have that sword.

Yeah, i know what you mean. Precisely what attracts me to playing the martial-artist archetype is the "self-reliant" character. You can't do that in core D&D3(.5)E.

I've been trying to figure it out, and I think what you need is some combination of restricitons on using equipment and/or incentives to ignore it. I was thinking of some very cool feats that go above-and-beyond a bit, but requrie something special--like the psionic feats, maybe based on a "ki" score. Next, add body enchantments--so you can magic yoru body instead of acquiring a magic item. And then have these count against body slots. In fact, maybe have class abilites and/or feats that count against magic items, or don't function in the presence of magic items. These wouldn't be perfect, but maybe the basic ideas could be refined to make it work. Biggest problem i see is when the party loses its equipment (imprisoned, or something), the martial artist would be at a significant advantage. But, then, a part of me says that's the *point* of the archetype.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

does anyone have a martial-artist class?
one that isn't a monk? i mean we have martial-artists in the real world
so it stands to reason, there'd be some in fantasy type settings.
not just the standard ninja, monk type thing.

If you want "real-world" martial arts in a D&D setting, use the fighter and pick appropriate feats and skills.

Yes, he will do badly against an armed and armored fighter of equal level, but that's the point - real-world martial artists will do badly against someone who has a sword and armor and knows what he is doing. The whole point of developing martial arts was that the inventors weren't allowed to use any weapons - if you have the choice between using weapons and not using weapons, using weapons is the smart choice.

The D&D monk was introduced to make martial artists a viable character concept. Sure, they aren't realistic, but they are fun - and it's no fun seeing your martial artist sliced into tiny pieces by someone armed with a sword.

Failing that, there is a "Shou disciple" class in the Forgotten Realms Sourcebook "Unapproachable East" which might be of interest to you - it gives you some of the monk abilities without the mystical baggage.

 

[Seule]

essentially, what i wanted was a martial artist, that is somebody who specialized in the fighting style to the point where it was an artform, but without the religious loose your alignment, loose your abilities type thing.

Sooooo..... take a Monk and change it slightly. Taking out the Lawful requirement is easy enough, and doesn't even change the balance. It pretty well requires at least changing the Lawful attack quality, but that should be easy to replace too. Anything else you don't like, change.
As a note, this post I quote is the first post in the thread that actually articulates something about the Monk that theyu don't like. Just saying 'I want a Martial Artist, but not like the Monk' isn't helpful. Take an existing class and change it until it fits what you do want. It's easier to maintain game balance that way.

--Seule

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

No One mentioned it explicitely, but: The D20 Modern has the Advanced Class Martial Artist. If you want to make it a full 20 level class, I would just combine the D20 Modern Strong and the D20 Modern Martial Artist. At every odd level, you take the benefits of a new Martial Artist level, and at every even level, you make it a level Strong. The Strong Hero talents wil all fit to a Monk.
At first level, the D&D Martial Artist would automatically gain the benefits of Combat Martial Artist (because the Martial Artist does need it as prerequisite and doesn`t gain improved damage (IIRC) and armed unarmed attacks)
I would also suggest increasing skill points to 4+INT per level. It might be a bit unbalanced to have both a good BAB and both a good Class Defense bonus, so I would suggest reduce one of them. (you could drop Class Defense bonus entirely and consider giving the Martial Artist free Defensive Martial Artist and Combat Expertise. If he really wants a good AC, he will have to make a little sacrifice)

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[reapersaurus]

I want to add my recommendation for Beyond Monks.