D&D 5E Martial Characters vs Real World Athletes

[Tony Vargas]

I find it virtually impossible to believe that the majority of people on this board haven't played some kind of ball sport (at the very least).

You are familiar with the concept of the 'nerd,' yes?

 

[Manbearcat]

You are familiar with the concept of the 'nerd,' yes?

I'm all nerd so I think so. Somewhere on here I had some commentary about how almost all jocks are closet nerds. While the inverse may not be fully true, is it possible to be so cloistered away from athletics or simple kids scrapping (both watching and participating) that you become unable to grasp the concept?

I mean just because you always got picked last for dodgeball or always had your lunch money taken by the bully doesn't mean that you don't get that you don't want your body to be in front of the ball/fist/dude that is rushing toward your head/chest/boys. Does it?

 

[ppaladin123]

This is a somewhat incomplete analysis, because a lot of the things these characters can do can be done absolutely reliably (obviously even world-class athletes can't break world records every time), and under really suboptimal circumstances. I'm pretty sure the world record long jump wasn't set by someone wearing full plate, for instance. Still, I think the real-world numbers are good to have in mind when it comes to setting DCs when characters want to push the limits using Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics).

I also think it's fair to assume the best archers have indeed taken the Sharpshooter feat.

On the other hand, check the records on deadlifts. A Str of 20 won't even get you close. IIRC, the one-handed deadlift record is better than what a Str 20 character can lift witth both hands.

Not only can they do this reliably every time in full armor, but they can do all these things very well not just one. The world record long and high jumpers probably can't also deadlift 600 pounds, swim at 5 mph, and sprint quickly but a fighter with 20 strength can.

Also deadlift is to the hips. Do the rules say the fighter can only deadlift that weight? Or can they reliably pick it up above their heads? The world record power clean/clean and jerk is about 580 pounds. So a level 20 fighter is just edging him out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_clean#power_clean

 

[Pillsy]

Also deadlift is to the hips. Do the rules say the fighter can only deadlift that weight? Or can they reliably pick it up above their heads?

The rules actually don't specify one way or another.

 

[pemerton]

The world record long and high jumpers probably can't also deadlift 600 pounds, swim at 5 mph, and sprint quickly but a fighter with 20 strength can.

There are plenty of world-class sprinters who have also been world-class long-jumpers.

More generally - do we really think that a 20 STR, 20th level fighter should be bounded by what is possible for a real world decathlete?

 

[Umbran]

Edit: I see I got beaten to this point...


There is a problem with comparing D&D "martial" characters to world record holding athletes - specialization.

In general, real world records in athletics are set by people very strongly specialized in a very narrow range of activity, usually using some pretty hefty sports science (ergonomics of running, nutrition science, and so on. You do not usually see a world-record sprinter also holding a world record marathon time, or a world-record swim time. And, of course, our top fencers are not also top runners. There is some overlap between sprinting and long-jumping, but once you spread otu to the rest of track and field - the runners aren't doing well in the hammer throw...

Meanwhile, a D&D character is typically a generalist, eats whatever is to hand, is probably not well rested by modern standards, and he or she has probably never seen a sports medicine doctor to have a massage and jacuzzi after exercise to keep limber!. So, if realism is the goal, having the same martial character being able to run, jump, swim, climb and fight with the best of them would be unrealistic.

 

[Umbran]

More generally - do we really think that a 20 STR, 20th level fighter should be bounded by what is possible for a real world decathlete?

See the OP - it is important to some that what these characters be comparable to what is possible for real-world humans.

 

[Hussar]

See the OP - it is important to some that what these characters be comparable to what is possible for real-world humans.

But, if you look at the OP, much of the records are far above what the best and strongest martial character can do. In no cases is the martial character ever better, and in fact, is rarely even close, or, to be honest, even competitive.

A clearer example would be to look at, say, college level athletics and then do the comparison. Surely my 20th level fighter should be better at just about everything than a college athlete.

 

[Pillsy]

But, if you look at the OP, much of the records are far above what the best and strongest martial character can do. In no cases is the martial character ever better, and in fact, is rarely even close, or, to be honest, even competitive.

For running, it seems like they don't even get close.

For a lot of the rest of the stuff, it comes down to what they can do by making skill checks.

 

[pemerton]

There is a problem with comparing D&D "martial" characters to world record holding athletes - specialization.

There is another problem too, though: if my 20th level, 20 STR fighter can't be as good as any real world champion athlete then I will probably suck in comparison to Aragorn, Conan, Beowulf, Hercules, Batman, Green Arrow, Hawkeye etc.

I also find it spoils verisimilitude that fighters are capable of fighting at a physical level that surpasses the humanly possible (eg trading blows with storm giants) but lack comparably preternatural physical prowess in their non-combat endeavours.