Martial Dailies - How so?

[Dragonblade]

In sports, people go into what they call "the zone". Its a moment where the player's ability is at peak (and even sometimes beyond). It involves proper conditioning, training, ability, talent, luck, and mindset. Not everyone can focus themselves like that for every play, indeed it would be to mentally and physically taxing to try. But when the proper amount of psyche, adrenaline, and ability kicks in, the person can perform almost supernatural stunts.

(There are reports of people doing this under extreme duress, like normal average guys lifting a car up on two wheels to rescue a trapped child. when they couldn't normally lift a their own body weight under normal conditions).

What we call "In the Zone" has been known in Japan for centuries. It is called Zanshin. Or "Awareness" (perhaps literally translated as "Remaining Mind"). Sometimes referred to as Happo Zanshin, or "8-directional Awareness". Many martial artists and samurai would meditate and train their minds in an attempt to achieve this state at will. Few succeed, but when they do they have become legends. Miyamoto Musashi for one. Bruce Lee, for example.

I used to compete in martial arts and have myself achieved Zanshin, although not at will, and only for a few fleeting moments. Essentially, time seems to slow down. You see everything your opponent does in slow-motion, yet you retain perfect and fluid control of your own movements. You can dodge blows that would otherwise be undodgeable and land perfect strikes that your opponent cannot block because from an outside perspective, your timing is flawless. Zanshin doesn't always get triggered by fighting though. I was in a car wreck last year where my car hit some ice and spun out of control. As it hurtled towards the concrete barrier, again time seemed to slow down and I could see everything in slow motion. Unfortunately, there wasn't anything I could do due to the ice and the inertia of the car, but looking back I realized what had happened.

There is an old Japanese story (I'm paraphrasing from distant memory, and there are several variations of this story on the internet) where a humble tea ceremony instructor inadvertantly gave offense to a samurai. Enraged by this affront to his honor, the samurai challenged him to duel later that day. The poor tea ceremony teacher was terrified, yet bound by honor, he had no alternative.

Another samurai who saw his plight, took pity on the poor tea instructor and offered to help. The samurai asked the tea instructor if he had ever even held a sword before. The teacher answered no, and the samurai proceeded to offer some basic instruction. However, he soon realized that the teacher would never master the skills in time to stand a chance against a trained samurai. He pondered the dilemma.

Believing that all hope was lost, the teacher at least offered to make tea one last time for the samurai who attempted to help him. The samurai agreed and watched the teacher perform the ceremony. As he watched the teacher perform the ceremony, he realized that the teacher had achieved perfect harmony and tranquility. After the ceremony, he told the teacher to approach his opponent with that same harmony and tranquility that he felt while performing the tea ceremony.

Later that day, the arrogant samurai strode to the meeting place and found the teacher waiting for him. The teacher was perfectly calm and at peace, his sword held firm and steadily. The samurai stopped and bowed. "I cannot defeat you," he said. "You are truly a master." And he left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanshin

 

[Mallus]

Because my homebrew system isn't done yet.

Good answer, good answer!

Seriously though, I'm not sure you're going find better than half-assed rationalizations for the martial daily powers ("They're do to, umm, adrenaline, ki, beneficial circumstances, and training from the Batman...").

They're a triumph of utility over in-game logic. And I mean that as a compliment.

 

[FadedC]

The effect of the power itelf is also somewhat ridiculous, I'll grant that. It could be easily houseruled to say "both targets must be in front of you" or similar, but that's not my main question here - it's the restrictions on how often you can use it.

Well what I'm trying to figure out here is that based on previous posts you seem to sort of accept(and I apologize if I'm wrong) the "lucky blow" or "hard to set up hit" rationale for why a warrior only gets to hit for triple damage once a day. I'm having a hard time seeing why that would be so different then the rangers split the tree power. The odds of your opponents being positioned just perfectly and the wind being in the right direction to get your arrors to fly off just right and have a chance to hit them seems like a once a day type thing to me (well realistally once in a lifetime, but that's another matter).

 

[GnomeWorks]

Seriously though, I'm not sure you're going find better than half-assed rationalizations for the martial daily powers ("They're do to, umm, adrenaline, ki, beneficial circumstances, and training from the Batman...").

I don't know, I thought Remathilis' explanation seemed pretty solid.

They're a triumph of utility over in-game logic. And I mean that as a compliment.

That is not, IMO, a good thing. You don't have to sacrifice logic for utility, or utility for logic. They can coexist.

 

[HeinorNY]

Anybody got any ideas?

The martial character does not realize that he can perform a special attack each day that deals much more damage to his enemy, he just try to deal lots damage in each attack, and from his POV, from the immersion POV, one of those really was more brutal than the other attacks he made.
He doesn't do it consciously like "Ok, now I'm going to use my special attack. Bruuutaalll Striiiiike!!" The player decides when it's the right time for his character to use that exploit. Oh and that's, IMO, the reason they are called 'exploits' and not 'maneuvers'.

The same with the warlord. He is always trying to give his allies the best course of action, he is always coordinating the attacks, shouting and doing his tactical stuff. But the character, again from the immersive POV, doesn't know that he has a special shout that allows one of his allies to immediately charge an enemy. He is always shouting, always telling other the best way to act, but maybe they just don't obey, or don't hear him in the middle of the fight or they don't understand it. But sometimes they do. That's when the metagamish component takes place and the Power is activated.

That's not intended to be a house rule or solution to everyone, that's how I'll probably "rationalize" most of the martial powers.
I thinks it's much better than the "enemies don't fall for the same trick twice".

 

[Plane Sailing]

As far as I can tell, the decision to use a martial daily power is a player decision, not a character decision.

For my money this is the most compelling argument.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Well what I'm trying to figure out here is that based on previous posts you seem to sort of accept(and I apologize if I'm wrong) the "lucky blow" or "hard to set up hit" rationale for why a warrior only gets to hit for triple damage once a day. I'm having a hard time seeing why that would be so different then the rangers split the tree power. The odds of your opponents being positioned just perfectly and the wind being in the right direction to get your arrors to fly off just right and have a chance to hit them seems like a once a day type thing to me (well realistally once in a lifetime, but that's another matter).

I don't accept those rationales ("lucky blow" or "hard to set up") for the triple damage 1/day ability. I acknowledge that there are some very physically demanding things that a fighter-type can do, that would reasonably require an extended rest to recover from, and be able to do again.

My issue with the ranger's double-shot power is that it doesn't seem to be in the same category of physical stress. Nocking two arrows is not nearly as physically demanding as hitting someone as hard as you possibly can (ie, dealing triple damage).

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Yes, but the chances of the opponents arrayed in such a fashion that the nocking and firing of two arrows will actually potentially hit an opponent is something harder to come by then simply whacking someone with a sword as hard as they can.

It is not just what the character is doing that determines the chances of it working, thus probability, etc. But what is happening in the battle around him, the position of the enemies, the terrain, the weather, the lighting, etc. All these would impact it.

 

[GnomeWorks]

The martial character does not realize that he can perform a special attack each day that deals much more damage to his enemy, he just try to deal lots damage in each attack, and from his POV, from the immersion POV, one of those really was more brutal than the other attacks he made.
He doesn't do it consciously like "Ok, now I'm going to use my special attack. Bruuutaalll Striiiiike!!" The player decides when it's the right time for his character to use that exploit. Oh and that's, IMO, the reason they are called 'exploits' and not 'maneuvers'.

In my mind, the player decides that the character decides that now is the time to give it all he's got, and uses that daily power. It is a conscious decision to put all your energy into a single strike; that sort of thing is physically draining, and you can't do it again until you've rested.

The same with the warlord...

I haven't thought about the warlord much, but I imagine that I will encounter similar difficulties with that class's daily abilities, as well. I might not, though, so I'll just have to wait until we have more information.

 

[Li Shenron]

The abstraction of of the daily martials is fine. Ironically - they've been in D&D before (Oriental Adventures 1ed) and everyone said "neat! Chi-based abilities". Now, suddenly it's turning people ('simulationists' yay a new geek sub-meme!) off because it doesn't make sense from that perspective.

There is however a share of gamers who very simply don't like the fantasy idea of "chi" in a D&D game. "Chi" is basically "putting magic into combat (and actually everything else)". For those who aren't keen on the idea, 4e is not good.