Martial equivalent of Wish..

[Stone Dog]

A Good Death
Requires level 18
For the next 10 rounds, the fighter cannot die. She gets a +20 bonus to her attacks, and all damage done is tripled. At the end of those 10 rounds, the fighter dies and cannot be brought back from the dead.

I actually really like this one.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

I don't think it's that bad an idea. Giving martial classes a "supermove" might be kind of cool.

For example:

A Good Death
Requires level 18
For the next 10 rounds, the fighter cannot die. She gets a +20 bonus to her attacks, and all damage done is tripled. At the end of those 10 rounds, the fighter dies and cannot be brought back from the dead.

Now this I like the sound of. It does not carry the 'no save you and all your friends are dead' equivalent of a wish. But it does basically give the fighter a chance to do pretty much whatever the heck they want for a while.

However, I was thinking of something that did not really amount to "Ok Dm, I am done with this character".

END COMMUNICATION

 

[PeterWeller]

A good DM knows enough how to mediate the effects of Wishes and Miracles to make sure they're not game breaking and don't provide the user with an "I win" button. Really, while they can create amazing effects, they're the kind of spell that's rarely cast, and when it is, creates a benefit or misfortune felt by the entire party. Rarely do I see a Wish or Miracle cast in the heat of the moment without a long period of planning and discussion, especially about the wording, before hand. More often than not, the decision to use a Wish is a decision made by the entire party, and thus it's not especially game breaking for a character to have such an ability.

Wish and Miracle are spells that "break the game." Not every character should be able to call forth such a power, and there is nothing else that can really be considered equivalent. Even other ninth level spells pale in comparison to these spells, but because of the reasons I mentioned above, I don't see this as being imbalanced.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I don't think it's that bad an idea. Giving martial classes a "supermove" might be kind of cool.

For example:

A Good Death
Requires level 18
For the next 10 rounds, the fighter cannot die. She gets a +20 bonus to her attacks, and all damage done is tripled. At the end of those 10 rounds, the fighter dies and cannot be brought back from the dead.

So the poor fighter has to irrevocably die, but the cleric and the wizard just lose XP? Sucks to be the fighter.

Overall I'm with RPG_Tweaker and Cadfan.

 

[blargney the second]

Martial Wish? Use any martial ability (up to a certain level) once, whether or not you meet the prereqs.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

That is the worst idea I have heard online in a looonnngggg time. Wizards are wizards, they can at high level obliterate many mooks at once that is the benefit of high level artillery magic and is classic. Warriors can carve through a lot of mooks as well but only as many as their swords can hit in a given round of combat. This is because melee weapons don't have large areas of effect. Warriors unlike wizards, who run out of mass kill spells, will not run out of high powered melee weapons to use and can over time kill more than the wizard.

The bright flash of light from the swordsman and 30 goons fall dead bloodlessly and the warrior hasn't worked up a sweat, is found in anime and doesn't belong in D&D except as some completely optional spatbook. Maybe this book can be called

Grossly Distorted Features and Ridiculous Buster Swords D20.

Sundragon

All opinions are subjective, of course .

If you look at this from a point of view of traditional fantasy fiction, you are right of course. Magic is the stuff of wonder, the fabric of reality, so of course it can grant wishes. Fighters are just really good with their swords, and though possibly able to survive superhuman amounts of punishment, are confined to the realm of the mundane.

If you look at this purely as a game though, a great deal of effort is put into keeping this game reasonably balanced. The various character classes are obviously intended to all be reasonably viable. The same applies to the various character races. When something is deemed too powerful, it is often subjected to errata. So your wizard can throw fire balls? Big deal, my barbarian can trade shots with giants and cut down hordes of orcs with ease. In that light, why should one player get to alter reality on a whim while another player cannot? Just because one is a spell caster?

I subscribe to the latter view. In that consideration, if the primary casting classes can get an ability that can alter reality, fighter types should get something equally impressive.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Sundragon2012]

I have never had a problem DMing wish since my teens when I made a few mistakes in granting excessively powerful effects. Since then there has been no problem. I see wish as THE spell that demonstrates that the mage knows the underlying rules of reality and is able to bend reality to his will. I would call wish the ultimate expression of magical will and thus a good spell if adjudicated properly. I think the idea of a mage saying, "It is my will that my enemy be cast into the past so that he my molest me no more." Then the enemy is cast 50,000yrs into the past and is never seen again....unless he has a wish as well.



Sundragon

 

[Zurai]

The fighter should not have a wish-like ability... but I don't think the wizard or cleric should either. In my opinion, that is the realm of the gods and powerful outsiders.

I agree. It would also make (3E) pit fiends even cooler. Pit Fiends have Wish as a spell-like ability, but they can ONLY use it to tempt mortals into corrupting their souls.

It'd make for an even cooler concept if the mortal couldn't just get Wishes himself by paying a wizard.

 

[Celebrim]

My wizard sucks if he runs out of spells and has to use a crossbow?
My character sucks if he isn't skillful at everything he does?
My fighter sucks if he can't cast wish?

I do not like this trend.

 

[Sundragon2012]

All opinions are subjective, of course .

If you look at this from a point of view of traditional fantasy fiction, you are right of course. Magic is the stuff of wonder, the fabric of reality, so of course it can grant wishes. Fighters are just really good with their swords, and though possibly able to survive superhuman amounts of punishment, are confined to the realm of the mundane.

This IMO is as it should be. I don't DM a D&D supers game or D&D Exalted.

If you look at this purely as a game though, a great deal of effort is put into keeping this game reasonably balanced. The various character classes are obviously intended to all be reasonably viable. The same applies to the various character races. When something is deemed too powerful, it is often subjected to errata. So your wizard can throw fire balls? Big deal, my barbarian can trade shots with giants and cut down hordes of orcs with ease. In that light, why should one player get to alter reality on a whim while another player cannot? Just because one is a spell caster?

I think that the quest for balance at all costs is utterly destructive to the game and all the tropes of heroic fantasy fiction and gaming. I see nothing wrong with certain classes being better at kicking butt than others at their highest levels. Fighters should be able to outfight a rogue. Rogues should be able to outsneak and outskill warriors. Wizards should be able to be able to do what mundanes cannot because they are not mundane. Classes have their specialities. W

Consider this, there are no martial means to immortality, to endless youth, to charm enemies, to slay with a word, to summon devils, etc. The bending of the laws of reality is intrinsic to wizardry. If we want to balance things completely we need to make fighters magical. If there were martial ways to do what magic does, just turn all warriors into fighter/wizards and call it a day because the class will be destroyed.



Sundragon