Martial Power Excerpt: The Aerialist Rogue

[Klaus]

I'm getting that. It just seems pointless.

I understand why there are builds unconnected to mechanical advantages for classes like the Paladin, where your "build" really boils down to "should I focus on Strength or Charisma, and if so, what are the implications for my character at level 1?" Those builds were a great help to the new players I've introduced to gaming.

But for the Rogue, where the builds presently have mechanical advantages, I have a hard time understanding what the point is. I mean, a rogue with Artful Dodger is a rogue with Artful Dodger, and any advice that applies to the former applies to the latter as well, whether they're a "trickster rogue" or an "aerialist rogue."

Its not like you can't be trained in both Acrobatics and Bluff at the same time, and take powers that match both skills at the same time without any trade-off or penalty.

Trickster Rogue, Brawny Rogue, Aerialist Rogue -> "builds". No mechanical advantages

Artful Dodger, Brutal Scoundrel -> "rogue tactics". Mechanical advantages.

These two categories are independent from each other. All classes have "builds" and "choose your feature" (Commanding Presence for warlord, Implement Mastery for wizards, Pact for warlocks, Fighting Style for rangers, weapon choice for fighters, etc)

 

[Cadfan]

Right, right. I totally get the difference.

What I'm saying is:

If you have builds that are connected to class abilities, which the Rogue does (the trickster rogue is clearly intended to be an artful dodger build, the brawny rogue is clearly the brutal scoundrel), then I don't see a purpose in having a new build which is not connected to class abilities.

Builds are essentially advice for a new player. Which is cool. I like that the game has this.

When builds are connected to class features, they are essentially advice on how to utilize that class feature.

Apparently WOTC believes that there are enough different ways to utilize the Artful Dodger class feature that they're justified in having multiple builds for it- ie, multiple sets of advice on how one might go about using the Artful Dodger class feature.

I'm not seeing it, since any advice that applied to Build A (trickster) for the artful dodger seems likely to apply to Build B (aerialist) as well. And there's nothing in that description of the Aerialist that couldn't be said about the Trickster just as easily.

 

[Cadfan]

On a positive note, I really, really like the Agent of the Raven Queen paragon path idea. I have high hopes for it.

One of the things that paragon paths can do, if WOTC is wise enough to use them in this way, is negate or mitigate the need for multiclassing by providing the sorts of powers and builds you would normally cobble together with a multiclass instead built conveniently into one location. I'm hoping this one furthers that goal.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Does anyone besides me find this odd (from the Aerialist Rogue preview):

[...]
Effect: You can shift 1 square.
Artful Dodger: You can instead shift a number of squares equal to your Dexterity modifier.

All of the other rogue powers with Artful Dodger "kickers" are based on your Cha, not your Dex.

So, typo in the excerpted power, or deliberate change?

 

[Larrin]

So, typo in the excerpted power, or deliberate change?

I want it to be deliberate, at low levels its kinda fair and by the time your dex bonus is super high, you shouldn't still have this power, so i don't think its a killer mistake. it could be the 'Areilist twist' on powers, and there is a prerequisite, etc. But yeah, it definitely has "this was a mistake" potential.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

So, typo in the excerpted power, or deliberate change?

Perhaps this is where the difference shines between Trickster and Aerialist Rogue.

While the Trickster relies more on Powers where the Artful Dodger bonus is based off Charisma.

The Aerialist Rogue instead relies more on Powers where the Artful Dodger bonus is based off of Dexterity.

If that is the case, it would create two different styles/feels of character while still being based in one Rogue Tactic.

 

[Klaus]

Right, right. I totally get the difference.

What I'm saying is:

If you have builds that are connected to class abilities, which the Rogue does (the trickster rogue is clearly intended to be an artful dodger build, the brawny rogue is clearly the brutal scoundrel), then I don't see a purpose in having a new build which is not connected to class abilities.

Builds are essentially advice for a new player. Which is cool. I like that the game has this.

When builds are connected to class features, they are essentially advice on how to utilize that class feature.

Apparently WOTC believes that there are enough different ways to utilize the Artful Dodger class feature that they're justified in having multiple builds for it- ie, multiple sets of advice on how one might go about using the Artful Dodger class feature.

I'm not seeing it, since any advice that applied to Build A (trickster) for the artful dodger seems likely to apply to Build B (aerialist) as well. And there's nothing in that description of the Aerialist that couldn't be said about the Trickster just as easily.

Complete sidenote: I built a "monk" character by taking a Brutal Scoundrel with Artful Dodger.

 

[WhatGravitas]

And there's nothing in that description of the Aerialist that couldn't be said about the Trickster just as easily.

It's probably just that they don't want to randomly create a bunch of powers (like many, many spells before), but instead want to create some overarching flavour. Builds are a pretty easy way to do that - you combine player advice and some general flavour into one package.

Is certainly neater than the full prestige classes for single themes before.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Shroomy]

Perhaps this is where the difference shines between Trickster and Aerialist Rogue.

While the Trickster relies more on Powers where the Artful Dodger bonus is based off Charisma.

The Aerialist Rogue instead relies more on Powers where the Artful Dodger bonus is based off of Dexterity.

If that is the case, it would create two different styles/feels of character while still being based in one Rogue Tactic.

Makes complete sense to me and definitely is more fitting for an acrobatic character (especially if you couple the powers with the requirement that you be trained in Acrobatics); Brutal Scoundrel and Ruthless Ruffian don't seem to fit IMO (well, the last one based solely on the name).

 

[Cadfan]

It's probably just that they don't want to randomly create a bunch of powers (like many, many spells before), but instead want to create some overarching flavour. Builds are a pretty easy way to do that - you combine player advice and some general flavour into one package.

Is certainly neater than the full prestige classes for single themes before.

Cheers, LT.

You're right. I hadn't thought of that.

That is a good reason to make a new build that doesn't do anything mechanically- to provide overarching flavor for a package of powers. Considering that I have home brewed such things myself, you'd think I would have come up with that explanation on my own.